OK - I know some of you Mac users are akin to religious zealots but the time is coming soon for a new home computer and I want some input from you guys. For my uses (internet surfing, photography storage and the occational Word or Excel document), I am seriously considering entering the cult of the Mac.
Talk me into it! Or out of it! I understand I will probably pay a little more for comparable performance of a PC but I am damned tired of the constant vigilance it requires to keep this thing virus and/or worm-free or connected to the internet!
new computer - To Mac or not to Mac
Moderator: Moderators
new computer - To Mac or not to Mac
'02 in black - the real BMW color! (Now gone to a new home)
Vann - Lifer No. 295
Vann - Lifer No. 295
I just set up a new 24" iMac for a friend of mine... It's a great machine and i really would like to have one of my own, but I'm stuck with my PC clone for a while, as it suits my purpose and I don't have $ for yet another computer and all the software I'd need to get it where I want it.
Beautiful user interface...
Very fast...
Comes standard with DVD burner, 250GB HD, Dual Intel Processor, 1 GB RAM, NIC, wireless, built in camera, etc. All for $1999.00.
For surfing, photography & movies, I'd say it's about perfect... And now that Google offers online word processing and spreadsheets, who needs Microsoft software?
JMHO,
T.
Beautiful user interface...
Very fast...
Comes standard with DVD burner, 250GB HD, Dual Intel Processor, 1 GB RAM, NIC, wireless, built in camera, etc. All for $1999.00.
For surfing, photography & movies, I'd say it's about perfect... And now that Google offers online word processing and spreadsheets, who needs Microsoft software?
JMHO,
T.
I was off work last year due to illness. I have an iMac and an eMac at home, and did a lot of time on the net. When I got back to the PC environment at work, I had to cry, I almost forgot how frustrating it was to use those machines. They simply don't work as well, and are much more difficult to use. If you don't want to spend a bunch. give the eMac a try, I was surprised at how fast it was, and it runs OSX very well, which is the real reason to buy a Mac, OSX is simply awesome. My wife loves it because she can take digital pics, load them on the iMac, and edit them without a computer course. I just like the ease of use, and the fact it doesn't need to be rebooted often. Crashes are a thing of the past.
Don
Don
2004 Ferro R1150R the stealthiest color
When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.
When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.
If you have virus issue's with a PC then your not doing something right...either AV or firewall. Spend money on a Mac if you want but consider first converting your PC to http://www.ubuntu.com/
If your bent on a mac then go for it but OS wise it's really just a pretty face wrapped around something that looks like unix....
Sorry...my .02 cents.. :\
If your bent on a mac then go for it but OS wise it's really just a pretty face wrapped around something that looks like unix....
Sorry...my .02 cents.. :\
'04 R1150R
Vann, think about the cool factor. 
Forget about everything else. "Cool" is what you want. Buy an Apple, you bought a BMW, afterall.
You know how you feel about all those people who wear chaps? Well, that's how people who use Macs feel about PC users.
C'mon, Man. Join the cult and drink the Kool-Aid.
Forget about everything else. "Cool" is what you want. Buy an Apple, you bought a BMW, afterall.You know how you feel about all those people who wear chaps? Well, that's how people who use Macs feel about PC users.
C'mon, Man. Join the cult and drink the Kool-Aid.Kristi
05 Granite Grey
05 Granite Grey
-
MikeCam
- Centurion Moderator!
- Posts: 2216
- Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:05 pm
- Location: Conway River, Virginia
Vann,
All the good advice is given so here is my testimonial:
Price: comparable price for comparable performance (w/ Mac you don't buy any additional utilities ever - virus, malware, spyware, etc etc built in) Included software is very good and replaces a good handful of post computer buyers' software needs. If you want MS Word, EXCEL, Project you buy the Mac version of Office at the time of sale. Software updates are nearly automated.
Performance: because the Mac OS X operates differently, you do not notice speed differences. You never have to learn new arcane features or worrry about settings or making two pieces fit together.
Networks: seamless integration. Well, OS X network functions do require you to read the manual, look in three places for help, and sometimes cry, but generally when I turn on my machine it simply finds an available network share and connects.
Internet: Mac's one weak spot. With either the Safari browser or Firefox, the web pages do not always load (5% of the time) since they are written for WINTEL rendering (and often never do a MAC version).
I am using the last generation Mac OS x Panther (10.3.9). OS X Tiger (10.4) and Leopard (10.5) offer the MacIntel interface on the newer MacTel machines.
At the Apple store you can find refurbished equipment at 10-50% off oiriginal prices, full warranty, full operability. A deal.
Best packaging, order fulfillment, help access, web sites in the business.
Oh One thing: printers. Mac OS X works like poo with printers. Go HP in a version sold by Apple (buy it anywhere just insure Apple also sells it to be certain of compatibility).
So your decision matrix should be this:
1. What main uses? Word processing, spreadsheet, presentations? OR just web and email? Music downloads? Video? Photo processing? etc etc
You determine what you do now and what you might wish to do in the near future. Then decide what machine does it better (there is no best)
2. Fundamental decision: WINTEL vs MAC (old) vs MACTEL
The WINTEL machines work, then crash, then require an upgrade or a piece of third party software or something else. The MAC machines work seamlessly and can operate without third party stuff. The MACTEL machines work in both worlds (but there are early reports of not all is smooth yet).
3. Price vs performance (including software add-ons).
WINTEL requires a virus, spam, adware, spyware, malware thrid party add on(s). But your existing collection of programs you've paid for will still work.
MAC has everything in the bundle at the gate. Except for MS Office which is a reasonable add-on. No virus, malware, spyware, adware required to add.
MACTEL requires mostly new software from both sides but will work somewhat with old stuff.
4. Features gotta have vs nice to have. Only you can decide. Pictures? MAC is really good with that. Web hosting/posting? MAC iTunes and iPod -- best on the MAC.
But generally speaking, if all you do is surf the web, post pics occasionally, and write email, then it does not matter a bit what you do.
HTH
All the good advice is given so here is my testimonial:
Price: comparable price for comparable performance (w/ Mac you don't buy any additional utilities ever - virus, malware, spyware, etc etc built in) Included software is very good and replaces a good handful of post computer buyers' software needs. If you want MS Word, EXCEL, Project you buy the Mac version of Office at the time of sale. Software updates are nearly automated.
Performance: because the Mac OS X operates differently, you do not notice speed differences. You never have to learn new arcane features or worrry about settings or making two pieces fit together.
Networks: seamless integration. Well, OS X network functions do require you to read the manual, look in three places for help, and sometimes cry, but generally when I turn on my machine it simply finds an available network share and connects.
Internet: Mac's one weak spot. With either the Safari browser or Firefox, the web pages do not always load (5% of the time) since they are written for WINTEL rendering (and often never do a MAC version).
I am using the last generation Mac OS x Panther (10.3.9). OS X Tiger (10.4) and Leopard (10.5) offer the MacIntel interface on the newer MacTel machines.
At the Apple store you can find refurbished equipment at 10-50% off oiriginal prices, full warranty, full operability. A deal.
Best packaging, order fulfillment, help access, web sites in the business.
Oh One thing: printers. Mac OS X works like poo with printers. Go HP in a version sold by Apple (buy it anywhere just insure Apple also sells it to be certain of compatibility).
So your decision matrix should be this:
1. What main uses? Word processing, spreadsheet, presentations? OR just web and email? Music downloads? Video? Photo processing? etc etc
You determine what you do now and what you might wish to do in the near future. Then decide what machine does it better (there is no best)
2. Fundamental decision: WINTEL vs MAC (old) vs MACTEL
The WINTEL machines work, then crash, then require an upgrade or a piece of third party software or something else. The MAC machines work seamlessly and can operate without third party stuff. The MACTEL machines work in both worlds (but there are early reports of not all is smooth yet).
3. Price vs performance (including software add-ons).
WINTEL requires a virus, spam, adware, spyware, malware thrid party add on(s). But your existing collection of programs you've paid for will still work.
MAC has everything in the bundle at the gate. Except for MS Office which is a reasonable add-on. No virus, malware, spyware, adware required to add.
MACTEL requires mostly new software from both sides but will work somewhat with old stuff.
4. Features gotta have vs nice to have. Only you can decide. Pictures? MAC is really good with that. Web hosting/posting? MAC iTunes and iPod -- best on the MAC.
But generally speaking, if all you do is surf the web, post pics occasionally, and write email, then it does not matter a bit what you do.
HTH
The Older I Get, The Less I Know.
The irritating thing is I am doing things right, I think, with two different firewalls and two different anti-spyware programs. It takes a lot of work to keep it clean. I am tired of it.If you have virus issue's with a PC then your not doing something right...either AV or firewall.
Computers to me are like modern cars. I drive one every day but have no desire to 'pop the hood' and work on it. I want a computer like my Subaru. Start it and use it!
Thanks for the info and keep posting! I don't have the money for this project yet anyway!
GypsyR - Chaps? Drink the Kool-Aid? You must be one of the Mac zealots I was referring too!
'02 in black - the real BMW color! (Now gone to a new home)
Vann - Lifer No. 295
Vann - Lifer No. 295
Re: new computer - To Mac or not to Mac
For that kind of stuff, an iMac will suit you down to the ground. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one - it's not the cheapest, but it's the easiest for all of the above and more.wncbmw wrote:... internet surfing, photography storage and the occational Word or Excel document ...
Mine just sits there ready for all of that stuff - we have MS Office loaded, plus all of our thousands of digital photos, footage downloaded straight from the camcorder, all my CDs loaded into iTunes - and it just works.
Dropping things onto a CD or DVD is a snap - the built-in iLife package means you can do most of the common things straight out of the box. My only reservation would be that you should only buy new at the beginning of the year when they've launched the update (iLife 07 etc), rather than before Christmas when I got mine ...
The only hardware I've added is a LaCie external hard-drive (firewire), which is set to do automatic incremental backups of any new music / photos / documents daily - if the Mac blows up, at least we have another copy of everything. It's also a five-minute job to backup all your photos to DVD every so often too to be on the safe side.
The design of the machine itself is beautiful IMO, and I found it very easy to get into, despite having never seen a Mac up close after 17+ years of home & business PC usage. It's fast, the screen is fantastic, and I can use all my 'normal stuff' like Office, Firefox and Gmail notifier that I rely on daily. Mine is the Apple chip, and I've read that the new Intel chips are even faster yet.
EDIT: See also >>> http://www.apple.com/getamac/
Chaps - as in:http://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=8110&start=0wncbmw wrote: GypsyR - Chaps? Drink the Kool-Aid? You must be one of the Mac zealots I was referring too!
Kool-Aid - as in:http://www.gbs.sha.bw.schule.de/jim_jones_history.htm
Cool - as in: http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/
I don't know enough about them though to be a zealot.......yet. I just know that when I switched to Macintosh computers everything got sooooo much easier and I have never had a problem with any of the Apples I own. I do need more space on my laptop though!
Kristi
05 Granite Grey
05 Granite Grey
Oh one more thing to consider, I have bought 4 Mac's since 1994, all are still operating to this day. In 1994 Packard Bell was the best selling PC, where are they now, and how many are still running? Apple puts good components in their puters.
Don
Don
2004 Ferro R1150R the stealthiest color
When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.
When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.
Wow, look at all the PC haters.
My Dell 4400 ran for 4 years with almost no reboots (other than updates) with nary a crash and no virus. Lightning finally took out the MB.
I bought a bare bones, moved almost all the other Dell parts over, installed a larger HDD (from 20G to 250G), reinstalled WindowsXP Pro off my Dell CDRom and have been up for months more with no reboots.
Total Replacement cost for the new machine with 2x the CPU speed and 10X the HDD space? $175.00
Lets see you scavage your old Mac to build a new one.
I wont be upgrading to Vista anytime soon, but XPPro has been wonderful.
For casual internet and general word processing, MACs are a wonderful, albiet expensive alternative to a PC.
The MAC is the Two-Wheeled Scooter of the PC world. It is automatic, it is hardly upgradeable, and no one bother to try and monkey with it.. because it is a scooter. But as long as you only need to get from here to there, a Scooter makes sense and so does the MAC.
But PCs are not the monsters that people make them out to be.
It just takes responsible usage. Unfortunately, if you extrapolated most PC users into the Motorcycle world those same users would; never change the oil, never check their air pressure, would never use premium or gas treatment, and ALWAYS let anyone that walked by and made a suggestion to improve their machine do whatever they want; tweak the dampening, lower the pegs, change the timing, adjust the throttle cable.... etc. AND park it on the street with the keys in the ignition.
Funny Mac Vid Warning bad language.
My MAC loving friend and I spar on this all the time. Good fun.
If you DO get a MAC, then also get this program.
It is awesome and my personal friend wrote it and was just released in the last month or so.
IThemeOS
It lets you build icons and customize your desktop with ease.
My Dell 4400 ran for 4 years with almost no reboots (other than updates) with nary a crash and no virus. Lightning finally took out the MB.
I bought a bare bones, moved almost all the other Dell parts over, installed a larger HDD (from 20G to 250G), reinstalled WindowsXP Pro off my Dell CDRom and have been up for months more with no reboots.
Total Replacement cost for the new machine with 2x the CPU speed and 10X the HDD space? $175.00
Lets see you scavage your old Mac to build a new one.
I wont be upgrading to Vista anytime soon, but XPPro has been wonderful.
For casual internet and general word processing, MACs are a wonderful, albiet expensive alternative to a PC.
The MAC is the Two-Wheeled Scooter of the PC world. It is automatic, it is hardly upgradeable, and no one bother to try and monkey with it.. because it is a scooter. But as long as you only need to get from here to there, a Scooter makes sense and so does the MAC.
But PCs are not the monsters that people make them out to be.
It just takes responsible usage. Unfortunately, if you extrapolated most PC users into the Motorcycle world those same users would; never change the oil, never check their air pressure, would never use premium or gas treatment, and ALWAYS let anyone that walked by and made a suggestion to improve their machine do whatever they want; tweak the dampening, lower the pegs, change the timing, adjust the throttle cable.... etc. AND park it on the street with the keys in the ignition.
Funny Mac Vid Warning bad language.
My MAC loving friend and I spar on this all the time. Good fun.
If you DO get a MAC, then also get this program.
It is awesome and my personal friend wrote it and was just released in the last month or so.
IThemeOS
It lets you build icons and customize your desktop with ease.
Another point of view:
I support about 150 PCs and 150 iMacs in a school setting.
There are about an equal number of of software problems. Most of the time it is quicker to reimage the computer than to track down the cause of the problem.
From a hardware viewpoint, I perfer the PCs. I can change out a hard drive, video/network card, or power supply in 5 minutes.
On the iMacs it's a serious pain just to open the case. The LCD iMacs are worse.
ymmv.
jb
I support about 150 PCs and 150 iMacs in a school setting.
There are about an equal number of of software problems. Most of the time it is quicker to reimage the computer than to track down the cause of the problem.
From a hardware viewpoint, I perfer the PCs. I can change out a hard drive, video/network card, or power supply in 5 minutes.
On the iMacs it's a serious pain just to open the case. The LCD iMacs are worse.
ymmv.
jb
Macs, like Ipods, cost too much for the hardware you get. (I guess a Honda rider says that about my BMW huh?) 
My new HP Pavillion laptop was $950 with rebate.
Came with HP Photo software, and other goodies.
My ISP gives me free McAfee Security Center. No worries.
It's not Windows that is so bad, it's Internet Explorer, and Email.
I use Firefox so the spyware can't get in.
Those are the pipes into your system, and they should be protected with Email scanning.
IE 7 is supposed to be better.
But if you want a Mac, Get a Mac!
My new HP Pavillion laptop was $950 with rebate.
Came with HP Photo software, and other goodies.
My ISP gives me free McAfee Security Center. No worries.
It's not Windows that is so bad, it's Internet Explorer, and Email.
I use Firefox so the spyware can't get in.
Those are the pipes into your system, and they should be protected with Email scanning.
IE 7 is supposed to be better.
But if you want a Mac, Get a Mac!
Freedom is dangerous. Those in power that steal freedom are more dangerous.
-
yjleesvrr
- Member
- Posts: 1803
- Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:23 pm
- Location: Blacksburg and Haymarket, VA/Basking Ridge, NJ
Mac is good for the average home user. If you're a techno geek who wants to take things apart and play around with Linux, than the PC is really your only choice.
It's good to be proficient with both if you can help it, but that's only if a computer is central to the way you make your living.
It's good to be proficient with both if you can help it, but that's only if a computer is central to the way you make your living.
Member #93, June 2002
'14 BMW R1200RT "Wethead"
'77 BMW R100/7 "Airhead"
'14 BMW R1200RT "Wethead"
'77 BMW R100/7 "Airhead"
Nope, that's not it at all - no-one had mentioned PCs at all in this thread up to that point, or bashed Windows at all. The question was (paraphrased) "are Macs any good for the listed things I want to do?", not "are Macs better / better value than PCs - discuss".Shaman wrote:Wow, look at all the PC haters ...
I have both at home & at work, and I can see the relative merits of both and there is no clear answer for everyone. The experience related so far seems to nett down to:
Macs are good for:
- working straight out the box, everything works with everything else
- ease of integration between each of the apps & their media content
- simple manipulation/sharing/burning/web posting of photos etc
- looking good - if it's your personal bag
- reduced sys.admin overhead if you're not bothered what goes on under the hood
Less good for:
- customisation / component / o/s upgrades
- bang per buck & straight purchase cost
- all-in-one design of iMac makes it inherently harder to fix a broken component
- more challenging to go 'off-piste' for the advanced user
I'd say to take a trip down to the nearest store where they have a few Macs setup and actually go & click some buttons. If you like it how it feels, and you have the money, buy it! If not, at least you have an informed experience to work off.
Good luck & enjoy!
Sorry if I came at you with that "your not doing something right" remark. That wasn't very nice of me. It kinda sounds like your ready to throw some money at the problem to make it go away...perfectly understandable. I do that too. You've described what you do with your machine but not necessarily the specifics as to which programs you use. My advice would be to stay away from as much Microsoft software as possible 
Consider trying these alternatives:
Firefox http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/
Thunderbird http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/
Gimp for Windows http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/
OpenOffice http://www.openoffice.org/
AVG virus scanner http://free.grisoft.com/doc/1
You only need one firewall. Either enable the XP built in one or better yet use a hardware solution likea router if you have one. If you have a software firewall like Norton Security or TrendMicro......pitty you. That stuff is more of a nuisance than a virus I think.
Here's a link to a good write up even though some things may be out of date version wise:
http://myunreal.com/showthread.php?t=67578
I met Shifty in NYC a couple years ago at a LAN party...very intelligent chap. Hopefully that link works for you. If you buy a mac, you most likely won't need it though
Consider trying these alternatives:Firefox http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/
Thunderbird http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/
Gimp for Windows http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/
OpenOffice http://www.openoffice.org/
AVG virus scanner http://free.grisoft.com/doc/1
You only need one firewall. Either enable the XP built in one or better yet use a hardware solution likea router if you have one. If you have a software firewall like Norton Security or TrendMicro......pitty you. That stuff is more of a nuisance than a virus I think.
Here's a link to a good write up even though some things may be out of date version wise:
http://myunreal.com/showthread.php?t=67578
I met Shifty in NYC a couple years ago at a LAN party...very intelligent chap. Hopefully that link works for you. If you buy a mac, you most likely won't need it though
'04 R1150R
Heh - that's funny: Macs now come with Intel based CPU's, and Unix based OS.
It sounds like there are lots of Mac users on this board - a lot more than I expected. Windows machines are such a target because there are so many. What will happen when the hackers go after Macs? Aynway, I think all of the main points are in this post, YOU have to make the decision. Look at support for when you need it - how many people know Mac's?
It sounds like there are lots of Mac users on this board - a lot more than I expected. Windows machines are such a target because there are so many. What will happen when the hackers go after Macs? Aynway, I think all of the main points are in this post, YOU have to make the decision. Look at support for when you need it - how many people know Mac's?
John
Member 293 (I think)
'17 Triumph Tiger 1200 XRX
Member 293 (I think)
'17 Triumph Tiger 1200 XRX
-
ScooterCop
- Basic User
- Posts: 134
- Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:00 am
- Location: Queens, NY
- Contact:
If you have an Apple store near you, go in and ask them to show you the basics. Apple stores also give free classes on the hardware and software they sell.
I switched this year and have never looked back. I have created web pages and home movies with the iLife suite, and it really is very easy.
I switched this year and have never looked back. I have created web pages and home movies with the iLife suite, and it really is very easy.
2004 R1150R ABS
2004 Piaggio BV200 (for work use only!!!)
2004 Piaggio BV200 (for work use only!!!)