Loose Steering or something like that

[cgguy09]

Hey team,
As I work through my new (to me) bike, I am slowly but surely eliminating problems. Something that is odd that I can't find an answer to is this odd feeling I am experiencing with my steering. In short, it feels like the steering is getting sucked into the corners

Here is the feeling:
Everything feels good going in and around twisties at speed. It feels great to be honest. But when I'm going slower or making a 90 degree turn (such as into a side street or a drive way) and I'm actually turning the handle bars vice leaning, it feels like the handle bars want to keep going, as if there was a rope attached to either end of handle bars and someone is pulling on it. I am actually fighting it as I go in and out of turns.

Attempted actions:
(1) I checked the steering head bearing (the 10mm allen key right in the center of the top triple tree). I feels smooth all around, no rust or anything to speak of. I also re-torqued it to the specified 130 NM.

(2) I fiddled with the braided line. I know this sounds odd, but its location and angle sort of of the line sort of push on the handle bars. For example, if I put it on the center stand, with the front wheel in the air, the braided line would push the handle bars to one corner. I adjusted it so there is minimal pushing or pulling in either direction. The handle bars won't sit on their own at the extreme corners of the handle bar range, but they will sit pretty close. Plus, the handle bars will sit and not move anywhere else I leave them.

(3) I had a loose paralever ( The bearings were shot) that I replaced the bearings and retorqued to spec. I originally thought that fixed it, but apparently not. I tried several times to see if I could move it at all laterally and I didn't notice any play. Sometime this week, I'll take off the rear wheel to see if I can get anything noticeable.

(4) Tires are at the proper pressure.

Hypothesis:
(1) I really don't know...it doesn't sound like a bearing issue, in the wheels or in the top of the triple tree (there is no lateral play in the handle bars).
(2) I still really don't know...the fact it feels good in the corners and going straight leads me to believe it's not unbalanced tires or a bent rim.

I'm open to any and all advice. Oh & I should add, I never noticed anything like this ever in my old Rockster.

Thanks for the advice team. I truly appreciate it.

v/r,
cFogs

[cgguy09]

Oh, and for bar weights. I have the same I had on my old bike. the left is stock & the right is a koaka throttle lock.

[riceburner]

It could be several things.

It could be a bearing in the rear swingarm - paralever bearing, or the swingarm bearings themselves, or even the crown-gear bearing.

It could be the tyres - if they're getting particularly worn, especially at the rear, they can have funny effects on the steering 'feel'. I find that a squared off rear can especially feel odd when you lean enough to go 'over the edge' of the squared-off section of the profile - that can certainly make the bike feel like it's 'dropping' into a corner more quickly.

I wouldn't worry too much about the steering free play being pushed slightly by the braided hoses - the bars on my bike won't sit 'square' when on the centre stand - as long as they can move freely then it's not an issue. They always fall to the left.... the side which has the larger, heavier, headlamp unit...

[kirby]

What brand of tire and how many miles? Pressure? What do use for "proper".

Sound like a under inflated tire (front).

[Tundra Dweller]

Not that this is the case with your ride. I can't count the number of times someone had a handling/head shake issue that was resolved with new premium rubber. The most over looked factor is the cupping of the front tire tread blocks. "There's plenty of tread left" no longer applys.
The main reason I replace my (non knobbie) tires as sets.

[AZBMWRIDER]

What tire pressures are you using ?

[cgguy09]

Hey team,
Thanks for all the responses!

What brand of tire and how many miles? Pressure? What do use for "proper".

Sound like a under inflated tire (front).

I ride on Pilot Road 4 Touring tires....They have about 1k miles on them. They are inflated to 30 PSI. I changed the tires when I picked up the bike & I noticed the same effect before and after.

Not that this is the case with your ride. I can't count the number of times someone had a handling/head shake issue that was resolved with new premium rubber. The most over looked factor is the cupping of the front tire tread blocks. "There's plenty of tread left" no longer applys.
The main reason I replace my (non knobbie) tires as sets.

I hear you on that, I replace my G650x tires about every 5k, but I don't think it's the problem in this case.

It could be several things. It could be a bearing in the rear swingarm - paralever bearing, or the swingarm bearings themselves, or even the crown-gear bearing. I wouldn't worry too much about the steering free play being pushed slightly by the braided hoses - the bars on my bike won't sit 'square' when on the centre stand - as long as they can move freely then it's not an issue. They always fall to the left.... the side which has the larger, heavier, headlamp unit...

(1) Thanks Riceburner, good to know it's not the hose...I've wasted a lot of time with that.
(2) I'll pull off the rear tire & check the torque on the paralever pins & make sure the new parts are still seated.
(3) Is there a good method to checking the swingarm bearings? I did a quick google search and didn't find anything. I imagine I would need to drop the wheel, unbolt the shock and check for lateral play? and are those bushings or actual bearings?

Thanks for the help team!

[trickytree]

Try 32 front and 36 in the rear tyre solo.

[kirby]

30 in both? I run 32 F 38 R cold unless I have the moto loaded heavy or two up then 34 F 40 R. Probably have had 25 sets of tires in the life of my Rock.
Tire gauges are notoriously inaccurate. I have mine checked at a tire store nearby where I am 'cause by law they have to have a regulator that is accurate. I have seen gauges 0ff by 5-7(or more) psi usually low. ( my brand new digital gauge checked 2.5 psi low! at the tire store)
If you are running the front in the 20-25 psi range actual pressure the bike will do fairly well until you slow way down and put side load on the tire by turning the bars which can cause what you describe.
If you don't have side play in the swing arm checked by the tire off the ground and grab the tire and try and move it side to side then most likely not the problem.
Done, good luck!

[AZBMWRIDER]

Try experimenting with different tire pressures and see what you experience .
I run 40 psi in both tires, then re-service them when they get to 36 psi .
I agree with having an accurate tire pressure gauge, I've had some 10 psi off .
RP4's are great tires, you shouldn't have any issues after you the bring the pressures to where they belong .

[kirby]

40 psi in the front is way too much pressure. Shouldn't be over about 34 cold.

Just say'in.

[riceburner]

I ride on Pilot Road 4 Touring tires....They have about 1k miles on them. They are inflated to 30 PSI. I changed the tires when I picked up the bike & I noticed the same effect before and after.

WOAH!
Seem a bit low to me....

http://moto.michelin.co.uk/GB/en/tyres/ ... /2004.html

Michelin recommendations for our bikes (Rockster is the same bike).

2.3 bar = 33psi
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=2.3+b ... e&ie=UTF-8

2.5bar = 36psi
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=2.3+b ... e&ie=UTF-8


Different tyres and manufacturers are different -
eg - I run Pirelli's mostly
https://www.pirelli.com/tires/en-us/mot ... 64#/search

Currently on Diablo Stradas which prefer 36psi Front, 42psi Rear.

[kirby]

My BMW manual recommends no more than 36 in the front. (depending on load)
Everybody has an opinion and for me I would never (on the street) run more that 34 psi cold on the front of my 1150 or 38/40 on the back solo. On a track day I drop it to 30 F/34 R cause of the heat rise and better traction.
The PSI on the side of the tire is a max pressure for running. (cold) with a proper gauge that its accuracy has been checked and noted.

This is after 300K + (miles) on oil heads and probably 50+ sets of tires of just about all brands.

The above is strictly FWIW

36 psi is too high for solo sport riding.

[CycleRob]

Like riceburner I also ran 36psi Front, 42psi Rear in my long gone R1150R. It accommodated solo/dual riding, gave excellent fuel mileage and handled really crisp in everyday riding. Your front tire at 30 psi is WAY TOO LOW, and likely why you are experiencing those unnatural steering traits. I would also invest in 2 digital tire pressure gauges (for your car/truck & bike) to confirm accuracy.

[riceburner]

My BMW manual recommends no more than 36 in the front. (depending on load)
Everybody has an opinion and for me I would never (on the street) run more that 34 psi cold on the front of my 1150 or 38/40 on the back solo. On a track day I drop it to 30 F/34 R cause of the heat rise and better traction.
The PSI on the side of the tire is a max pressure for running. (cold) with a proper gauge that its accuracy has been checked and noted.

This is after 300K + (miles) on oil heads and probably 50+ sets of tires of just about all brands.

The above is strictly FWIW

36 psi is too high for solo sport riding.

I always follow the TYRE manufacturers recommended pressures. When the bike was designed and built there were A,B,C tyres available. Now the tyres available are X,Y,Z - the vehicle manufacturers recommended pressures are no longer valid because they never took into account the way that tyres X,Y,Z were going to be designed.

36psi is perfect for solo sports riding: for tyres that were designed to have that pressure in them when fitted to that type of bike.

[kirby]

"I always follow the TYRE manufacturers recommended pressures. When the bike was designed and built there were A,B,C tyres available. Now the tyres available are X,Y,Z - the vehicle manufacturers recommended pressures are no longer valid because they never took into account the way that tyres X,Y,Z were going to be designed."




I don't have the words for that one!

[cgguy09]

Hey team,
Thanks for all the posts. I didn't think this request would start arguments about tire pressure. You would have thought I asked what the best brand of oil was!!

I double checked my tire pressure, with another gauge, and, as Riceburner and Kirby predicted, the gauge I was using was off by about 5 PSI (to the lower side). I never knew tire gauges would be that far off. It's a new gauge at that.

I filled up my tired to 34 and 36 (front to back). I haven't had much time to ride it... and living in downtown Seattle testing it out isn't as easy as I would like. That being said, it does seem to feel better. (Honestly, when you start looking for this little problems your mind begins playing tricks on you). I'm going to put it through the paces in the coming days (weather permitting and see how it feels!).

I'll keep you posted on my findings.

-cFogs

[kirby]

Marvelous!!
No augment on tire pressure just an exchange of ideas..no harm!

As an aviator I have known about the gauge inaccuracy for a while and try and pass that on to others. I just rechecked all my gauges and my mechanical one is the most accurate at 1 psi low but both of my small digital ones are off by 2.5 for one and 2 the other.(low) But they are small and easy to carry on the moto and I etched the correction in the case so I am getting good prerssures. The older digital one is over 5 years old and has stayed about the same.
34/36 works good for me!

cheers

[riceburner]

"I always follow the TYRE manufacturers recommended pressures. When the bike was designed and built there were A,B,C tyres available. Now the tyres available are X,Y,Z - the vehicle manufacturers recommended pressures are no longer valid because they never took into account the way that tyres X,Y,Z were going to be designed."




I don't have the words for that one!

I'm sure you understand my meaning, even if my words were a little abrupt.

[riceburner]

Hey team,
Thanks for all the posts. I didn't think this request would start arguments about tire pressure. You would have thought I asked what the best brand of oil was!!

I double checked my tire pressure, with another gauge, and, as Riceburner and Kirby predicted, the gauge I was using was off by about 5 PSI (to the lower side). I never knew tire gauges would be that far off. It's a new gauge at that.

I filled up my tired to 34 and 36 (front to back). I haven't had much time to ride it... and living in downtown Seattle testing it out isn't as easy as I would like. That being said, it does seem to feel better. (Honestly, when you start looking for this little problems your mind begins playing tricks on you). I'm going to put it through the paces in the coming days (weather permitting and see how it feels!).

I'll keep you posted on my findings.

-cFogs

Tyre pressures can have the weirdest effects on a bike, and some riders (and bikes) are incredibly sensitive to them. I know if my tyres are more than about 2psi out almost immediately.