Bad Gas, Clogged Filter, Both?

[Ves]

So, my last trip ended somewhat abruptly when my bike made a couple MWHAAAAAAAAA sounds, sputtered, and quit... as if it ran out of gas... but this was 2 miles after I gassed up. Fuses are good, I can here the fuel pump kick on, I have spark, I tried letting more air in by lifting the air filter cover... it wants to start and will catch for a second but then dies again... I'm thinking bad gas and/or clogged filter. So, before I drain the tank and go tearing into it... I'm open to suggestions... Maybe some of you had a similar problem? Thanks.

[Biff's R]

That sounds a lot like the trouble I ad on the way to the Bash. The filter got clogged, and became disconnected from the pump. Or something like that.

[CycleRob]

. . . this was 2 miles after I gassed up

Putting 10% Ethanol in gasoline is all to often a big problem right after the changeover. Water in the gas station's underground fuel tanks normally stays harmlessly on the bottom of the tank -until- the new Ethanol laden fuel comes in contact with it and immediately, totally, absorbs ALL of it. Along comes Ves on his cool German Roadster who then fills his near empty tank full of the stuff. The bike starts and runs fine until the poison fuel slowly works it's way thru the fuel filter, fuel lines and finally the intake ports. Then it goes "MWHAAAAAAAAA" and the bike runs like crap - - - if at all. You may have to drain and replace the fuel - - - - from a different gas station.

The worst part is that you paid about $4/gallon for that poison and you may have blown off the internal fuel filter line when the water wouldn't pass thru the fine filter media like gasoline does.

[boxermania]

Ves

Don't panic, you have some water in the gas, the question is how much........try this:

Crank a bit on the accelerator as to keep the idle at ~2000 rpm, the bike will die if you let her idle. Run around the neighborhood until the engine clears up.....this might take a few minutes as the "poison" is the first thing that will get out with a bit of good gas.

This will not work if there is a lot of water in the gas.......otherwise it will save you a lot of time and agravation......done it on several occassions in our riding group.......good luck

[Ves]

Thanks guys... I guess there's no harm in trying to start it up again... if not then it's time to take the tank off... I think even if I do get it running I'll probably replace the filter... Not sure what the maintenance on it was when I bought it last year... I was told it was up to date, but who knows.

[Ves]

Well, looks like it is bad gas... I stuck a hose deep into the tank, figuring if there was any water settled out I'd suck it off the bottom. I drain about half the tank. And tried starting it... It would catch a little but would not run... So, I pull out my lawnmower tricks... starter fluid. I opened up the air box, sprayed some in there and boom, she's running... not for long though... spray some more... run some more... die again... spray some more... this time when it started dying I gave it a small spritz... and again... and again... and again... revved it... it started responding to throttle pretty good. I then completely drained the tank, went to the gas station, filled up a 5 gallon can, filled the bike back up and added some fuel injector cleaner. I restarted it... it died... doh! Start again... keep the revs up... and drove off never letting the revs drop below about 2500... it was still stuttering a bit... Got out on the main street... went a few blocks... slowed down for a turn into a parking lot... let the revs drop too low... died... Restarted again keeping revs high... went about 10 miles total... wrung it's neck to redline... seems to be idling OK now... every now and then there's still a small drop in idle speed but then it comes back up and stays steady... I think it's out of the woods...

What pisses me off most about this, is I didn't buy my last tank from some Mom and Pop operation out in the middle of nowhere... I bought from BP... Man, if you can't trust their gas, who you going to trust...

So, do they make small cans of starter fluid that can be kept in a tool kit?

[Croc]

Ves
Hope you are all sorted now. Sounds the same as my bike did when I had my home-made water-based manomometer attached and I managed to push the throttle cable in on one side and the water was instantly sucked into the machine! Doh... It cleared fairly quickly though.
Croc

[Ves]

Ves
Hope you are all sorted now. Sounds the same as my bike did when I had my home-made water-based manomometer attached and I managed to push the throttle cable in on one side and the water was instantly sucked into the machine! Doh... It cleared fairly quickly though.
Croc

Nice... I almost did that last week... but I use oil in my manometer...

I replaced my gas filter today also... ran like crap again for a while... I assume that's cause of all the air in the filter and lines after I had it all apart... Rode it for a few miles and it seemed to settle down... we'll see the next time I fire it up...

[Sunbeemer]

Anybody tried using Dry-Gas (methanol) to dissolve the water and burn it? Works in carburetted cars, but I never tried it with fuel injectors (or oxygen sensors, although I think it says it is safe for them).

[OU812]

Some Bike MFG say no way to methanol. Major damage can occur.
My Harley V-Rod.

[Ves]

Happy to say that the next time the bike fired up it was absolutely fine.

[bgardner74]

Sure sounds familiar. Let me share a problem that started last month and is still going on.

In 04, bought my R1150R which has been the prize possession of my
life. Loved everything about it. Looks, feel, sound, performance.
Integrated ABS...unbelievable. It got its 12,000 tuneup this past
December at the Danbury CT BMW dealer. Made the switch to synthetic motor
oil. The bike had been absolutely flawless. No surging, no hesitation.

Didn't unhook the trickle charger until late April. Took the bike out.
It was fine. May 4th, I filled the tank at the same Citgo station I
had used for it since the day I got it. They were selling 94 octane
until a year ago, the highest premium around here. A day after the first
fill, I noticed the engine was not quite as smooth. But not enough to
be concerned about. Three days later, I returned to the same gas station,
filled the tank, drove home. That was Wednesday, 5/7. Didn't ride the
next 2 days due to rain. Took it out of the garage Saturday and it
wouldn't run. The choke which always worked no longer had any effect.
Holding the starter button and twisting the throttle, it would start,
cough, surge, hesitate, stop. I called the same dealer...the only BMW
dealer between southwestern Connecticut and New Jersey, by the way.
They were booked for the next two months. I described the problem,
they said I could drop it off and they would try to get to it within
the next two weeks. (This is the same BMW dealer that has done all the
service my bike has ever gotten.)

Their truck was booked, so I called BMW roadside assistance and they
arranged for a huge flatbed tow that afternoon. (The dealer's service
dept. is open on Saturdays.) Around 5pm, the dealer's service manager
calls and says they're pretty sure I have water in the gas.
Apparently, a lot. Anyhow, $300 and 2 weeks later, flushed, new fuel
filter, spark plugs, clamps, O-ring, and fuel filler cap gasket, I go
to pick it up. Now, the dealer is a 20 mile ride from home. I drove my
car up and left it there and took a different route home on the
R1150R. The bike was running, but not smoothly. The service manager
said it would get better with time. On the way back, the bike started
bucking, hesitating and surging. But I can drive it by keeping the
revs up and using the clutch as a regulator. Not great. Called the
dealer from the road, they told me to get dry gas, add it to the tank
and fill the tank. I did what what I was told but that didn't really
restore the old smooth operation and easy start ups.

A few more visits, the same problems persist. Finally, while waiting for the next earliest
appointment, I called the service mgr. He said I should siphon out all
the gas, put new gas in and repeat the drill. But not to add more dry
gas. He also left the charcoal canister disconnected. The bike feels
and sounds like crap. Shakes, backfires, is a bear to start and no fun
to drive. A heartbreaker and I haven't got a clue. I called two weeks
ago and made the next earliest appointment - July 19. Can't drive it.
My two wheeling is now on my wife's Vespa.

If anyone has any suggestions or solutions, that might still save my
summer.

PS, I have 4 years of gas receipts from the same Citgo station but the owners, a local oil company, don't feel any sense of responsibility. Every load of gas that went into the bike came from the same station. When I first was told what the problem was, I went back to the station to find out who owned it. The two workers on duty, both trainees at the time, had no clue. They just knew they worked for a manager named Al, I think. Then went to the town police station (Fairfield, CT) and the desk officer had a one word reply to my report. "So?"

He added that selling gas with water in it is not against local laws. And that the town police do not keep a file of motorist complaints. He suggested contacting the state's consumer protection agency. They are opn call and helpful but are hobbled by growing workloads, diminishing personnel and budget cuts. They did send an agent to check the gas for water but that was 3 or 4 weeks after the fact. The station gets deliveries almost daily. Any bright ideas will be gratefully accepted.

[Biff's R]

With the current gasoline prices many people who used to buy premium are using regular, and I think that the tanks at some stations are not getting turned over fast enough. I am also trying to use Shell as much as possible, since the bike seems o run better on their gas.

[PhilDinAZ]

My most favorite dealer (Mathias BMW in New Philadelphia, OH) informed me that he's be seeing several issues with bikes where the owners faithfully use premium gas. Says only thing he can figure is that the stations are not selling near the volume of premium and it's going bad/getting contaminated in the ground. Says it's the only consistent factor in all the bikes.

[Biff's R]

My most favorite dealer (Mathias BMW in New Philadelphia, OH) informed me that he's be seeing several issues with bikes where the owners faithfully use premium gas. Says only thing he can figure is that the stations are not selling near the volume of premium and it's going bad/getting contaminated in the ground. Says it's the only consistent factor in all the bikes.

My bike was one of those that they saw at Mathias. It died on the way to the Bash. I saw that Premium is only making up 7% of the sale of gasoline right now.

[Ves]

Sure sounds familiar. ... the dealer's service manager
calls and says they're pretty sure I have water in the gas.
Apparently, a lot. Anyhow, $300 and 2 weeks later, flushed, new fuel
filter, spark plugs, clamps, O-ring, and fuel filler cap gasket, ....better with time. On the way back, the bike started
bucking, hesitating and surging. But I can drive it by keeping the
revs up and using the clutch as a regulator. Not great. ....The bike feels
and sounds like crap. Shakes, backfires, is a bear to start and no fun
to drive. ...

If anyone has any suggestions or solutions, that might still save my
summer.

.....

My bike ran exactly as you describe... the other thing I did was to add some fuel injection cleaner to the new tank of gas... you could try that for a couple tanks... Grasping at straws: I don't know what kind of driving you're doing, but I would also take it for a long, fast, ride to really get the gas flowing... If that doesn't do it then I would have the injectors manually cleaned... check your throttle body sync... with all the sputtering, shaking, and backfiring it could have knocked something out of whack...

[GypsyRR]

This sure sounds like a costly and time consuming hassle that I want to avoid at all costs!!! I'll be following this thread to see how things work out for Ves and bgardner.

A local investigative reporter in my area did a report last year on stations around town who frequently put 87, 89 octane in their premium tanks, and then sell it as premium gas, making themselves some extra pocket money.

[wncbmw]

I had water in the gas once from a bad batch of gas. After riding quite a ways with a bucking bronco of a bike, hoping it would clear, I stopped a got a can of gas treatment. Put in 1/2 the can, gassed up and within 15 miles was riding smoothly again. Much cheaper option and worth trying before going to a lot of expense!

I now try to keep a can of Sea Foam treatment in the garage and once in a while, add 1/2 of a can while filling up, just as a preventive measure.

[Ves]

This sure sounds like a costly and time consuming hassle that I want to avoid at all costs!!! I'll be following this thread to see how things work out for Ves and bgardner.

A local investigative reporter in my area did a report last year on stations around town who frequently put 87, 89 octane in their premium tanks, and then sell it as premium gas, making themselves some extra pocket money.

Maybe that's what we should do... raise a stink. I seriously considered writing a letter to BP and asking for reimbursement for my time, my wife's time to come out clear across IL to haul me home, cost of fuel, new fuel filter and gasket, my time to do everything. I was just so glad to have the bike running again I figured it just wasn't worth the additional aggravation. And what is BP Corp going to do about some branch in some two horse town or any town for that matter. They can't really help it that there's water in the gas... can they?

[duckdave]

+1 on Seafoam. I add about 1/3 a can whenever she's running ruff or every couple o months. Seems to fix what ails yer motor.

Someone told me recently that it cleans all the deposits out of the tank and lines, and deposits them in the filter---and I should expect problems there soon.

Think I'll chance it once again to see if it will work its miracle again... hadn't though about bad gas contributing to my vaguely rougher ride lately. But it seems likely now that I read over this thread.