R1200R ... the reason why my next bike will be a KTM!

[captainK]

I was really looking forward to the release of the R1200R. "How can they go wrong", I thought. My Rockster is already a good bike but hey, time marches on, and I figure a biker never stops looking for the next bike. The K1200R looked great, a bit "edgy", something different. The HP2 enduro/supermoto also looked great, just not my style of bike. I figured that when the R1200R came out, it would just take BMW's new styling directions another step further.

I've now had two separate 2-hour plus test rides of the R1200R and apologies to all those who have already bought one, I'm totally unimpressed. Here's why:

It's supposed to be 20% up on power on my Rockster. Sure doesn't feel like it. More top-end obviously, but in standard day-to-day riding situations my Rockster feels stronger.

Yeah, it's lighter. To me light = unsubstantial (although I do confess that the reduction in weight does help the brakes).

My totally standard Rockster is much more comfortable then the 1200R. The seat on the 1200 is rock-hard, and the handlebar bend in the Rockster feels far better. Stuff you can fix, but why should I on an expensive motorcycle?

A few other (relatively minor) niggles. The oil cooler looks vulnerable behind the front wheel. I prefer the under-the-tank position on my bike. Why the cheapo off-the-shelf master cylinders, instead of the nicely styled items integrated with the switchgear -- cost concerns? And the 1200R seems to be missing the external battery terminals, which always strike me as being a good idea (maybe I just didn't see them).

In Australia (the Australian dollar is as near as damn it equal to the US dollar on the FX markets) a fully optioned R1200R is close to $25,000 with all the options: ESA, ABS and whatever they call their traction control, optional computer readouts, and the panniers, tankbag and tailpack that I have for my Rockster. Everything's optional -- clear lenses on the indicators cost more! That puts it in pretty exalted company in this market -- Aprilia Tuono Factory, MV Agusta Brutale, all kinds of Ducatis, etc. The BMW choice would be a K1200R but while I love the big torque that four-cylinder engine makes, the riding position isn't really that comfortable for me, and with all the options including luggage it's getting very close to a $30,000 bike here.

But most of all ...

At a glance it looks like any standard BMW roadster from about 1970 onwards! They failed to take the opportunity to build on the styling precedents of the K1200R, HP2, etc. and delivered a totally uninspired design for the "traditional" BMW customer. If I want traditional I've still got my mint 1990 R80 -- in black with pinstripes, just like the R1200R!

So I'm going for a KTM Super Duke: goes great, stops great, quality parts throughout, great riding position for those of us who no longer want to be stretched out over a sportbike ... and great state-of-the-art styling (it even comes in Rockster orange and black, although the black-on-black colour scheme looks good too). And it comes in some way cheaper than a fully-optioned 1200R.

So, sorry BMW, my next bike's a KTM. As my old school report cards used to say, "BMW -- should try harder".

Captain K.

[NCGS]

So, sorry BMW, my next bike's a KTM. As my old school report cards used to say, "BMW -- should try harder".

Captain K.

What's that old saying, "You can please all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you'll never please all of the people all of the time"..

No foul.. it's a good thing that not everyone finds a R1200R "the" bike for them - otherwise we'd all get bored looking at ourselves each time we saw a bike on the road.

Enjoy the KTM.. I hope you like yours a lot better than my buddy in Atlanta likes his..

[captainK]

I certainly agree that diversity is one of the things that makes riding motorcycles great ... we're not all riding the same motorcycles, and to be honest pretty much every motorcycle on the road that's above about 500cc holds some interest for me, you don't really see too many truly bad bikes on the road any more (some of the Chinese 250cc imports might qualify!).

BMW in Australia has also recently rationalised it's range. The R1200ST is no longer on sale ... I could have been interested in it because of the increased weather protection (although the headlight was pretty ugly, check out the vertical headlight on the new KTM RC8 which is much the same shape but much more attractive). And they've just stopped bringing in the R1200S! I liked the look of that, and the option of Ohlins shocks at a bargain price ($1,000 vs. $3,000 buying them as an aftermarket item) was an added feature. Both have fallen victim to the success of the 1200GS, which is the big seller here ... if you don't want a GS, the only other current flat-twin option is the 1200R. Oh ... and the RT, which is just to much of a land yacht for me but I can certainly see why they're popular.

I'm still a Beemer fan, and with any sort of luck other interesting bikes will follow ...

Captain K.

[parkec]

R1200R........Super Duke


If not the R1200R an ApriliaTuono would be a better choice. Check the reviews the KTM transmission is a clunker, while Aprilia's is close to being a Swiss Watch. Plus the fact it's just a better bike.

As some one who in the last few years has owned a:

Kawasaki ZRX1200
Falco (Aprilia's version of an adult sport bike)
Ducati Sport 1000 (sexy girl.got the most attention)
BMW R1200R

The R1200R is the funnest, while the Falco is easily the best made. One hell of a power plant, and delivery system. Oh! and the BRAKES

Don't get me wrong guys.. I love my R1200R. but my next bike (defn. additional bike) will be the Tuono R.

[captainK]

My brother has a Tuono in the Bay Area (he lives in a place called Pleasanton which didn't look that pleasant last time I visited ...). He loves it, has had it about as long as I've had the Rockster, and has had virtually no problems with it apart from a slightly erratic dash display (it's the original Tuono, not the current one).

Definitely on the list, the only downside being the local servicing for Aprilia doesn't seem to have a great reputation, but there is one KTM dealership that is really making a name for itself.

Captain K.

[qfman]

With you there Captain. I came off an '02 R1150R with ABS. Borrowed a Superduke from Procycles and took it up the Old Road and instantly LOVED it. Great motor, great ergos etc etc. Was considering Speed Triple ($16K!!)but could never get a test ride organised.

I've done a lot of Ks on an 03 Tuono - would take a Superduke any day.

Came close to buying the 'Duke until I saw the 12 month resale - they're getting less than 12K after a year. How's that going to look after 5 yrs and 100K?

Ended up getting a non-ABS R12R with mainstand and computer for 20K ride away. See the love below.

Tom

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~lonergans/

[Skippy]

Get the KTM they are great and if there's a good dealer I would defenitly go for it. I would like one to but they don't come with ABS witch is an absolute must for me and I probably never buy another bike without it.
On the power thing you just got to be joking the old R1150R lumb has some torque but it's no where near as powerfull feeling as the R1200R(witch also feels a lot stronger then the R1200GS and it's only up a little bit on that one) and it also has to drag all the extra weight around from the Rockster(witch is a cool bike don't get me wrong). I guess you just have to turn the throttle further . I had an R1100S before the R1200R and that felt fairly slow compared to the R1200R.
Also evrybody is talking about the cheap brake/ clutch reservoirs witch is nonsense as almost every other company uses those things too and no one is complaining there, but we all used to complain about the BMW's weight so they also switched to all the lightweight crap the competition was using and still everybody is complaining.
As for he new seat, it's great for me and if you wanna talk hard did you try the KTM seat as they are also not very soft but I'm told they are also quite comfy so hard ain't always a bad thing. For me personally the Rockster seat is useless cause the solo seat is to short for me(I'm sitting way at the back of that hing) and if the passenger seat is added I'm sitting exactly against the gap where they meet witch is also uncomfortable.
The handle bars on the R1200R are very good I feel and I realy love the riding position(being 184cm tall) but this kind of thing is always subjective and probably just needs getting used to for a bit you have been riding the Rockster for quite some time I guess so of course the new bike is going to feel different.

On pricing and use of parts I guess the KTM wins it handsdown as they realy use great supliers for all there stuff. Those WP shocks they are using are realy the sh@* and the Brembo brakes and switch gear are also looking very good that said the shaftdrive construction BMW is using isn't a cheap solution compared to chain drive so the moey has to go somewhere. Over here the R1200R and KTM Superduke are the same price but the BMW can be tarted up an be equiped with ABS to drive the price up but that's not realy a fair comparison as KTM can't suply an ABS system.

To put it short the R1200R is the best bike I ever owned period. It can be used for long trips( Superduke tank might be a problem), relaxed riding but also for some balls out rides at the backroads. I doubt if the KTM will be as versatile but off course you might not need it to be.

[AllanCook]

The Super Duke is a very hot bike. If I were half my age I'd have one. But I need luggage capacity these days.

[Dan-A]

I was really looking forward to the release of the R1200R. "How can they go wrong", I thought. My Rockster is already a good bike but hey, time marches on, and I figure a biker never stops looking for the next bike. The K1200R looked great, a bit "edgy", something different. The HP2 enduro/supermoto also looked great, just not my style of bike. I figured that when the R1200R came out, it would just take BMW's new styling directions another step further.

I've now had two separate 2-hour plus test rides of the R1200R and apologies to all those who have already bought one, I'm totally unimpressed. Here's why:

It's supposed to be 20% up on power on my Rockster. Sure doesn't feel like it. More top-end obviously, but in standard day-to-day riding situations my Rockster feels stronger.

Yeah, it's lighter. To me light = unsubstantial (although I do confess that the reduction in weight does help the brakes).

My totally standard Rockster is much more comfortable then the 1200R. The seat on the 1200 is rock-hard, and the handlebar bend in the Rockster feels far better. Stuff you can fix, but why should I on an expensive motorcycle?

A few other (relatively minor) niggles. The oil cooler looks vulnerable behind the front wheel. I prefer the under-the-tank position on my bike. Why the cheapo off-the-shelf master cylinders, instead of the nicely styled items integrated with the switchgear -- cost concerns? And the 1200R seems to be missing the external battery terminals, which always strike me as being a good idea (maybe I just didn't see them).

In Australia (the Australian dollar is as near as damn it equal to the US dollar on the FX markets) a fully optioned R1200R is close to $25,000 with all the options: ESA, ABS and whatever they call their traction control, optional computer readouts, and the panniers, tankbag and tailpack that I have for my Rockster. Everything's optional -- clear lenses on the indicators cost more! That puts it in pretty exalted company in this market -- Aprilia Tuono Factory, MV Agusta Brutale, all kinds of Ducatis, etc. The BMW choice would be a K1200R but while I love the big torque that four-cylinder engine makes, the riding position isn't really that comfortable for me, and with all the options including luggage it's getting very close to a $30,000 bike here.

But most of all ...

At a glance it looks like any standard BMW roadster from about 1970 onwards! They failed to take the opportunity to build on the styling precedents of the K1200R, HP2, etc. and delivered a totally uninspired design for the "traditional" BMW customer. If I want traditional I've still got my mint 1990 R80 -- in black with pinstripes, just like the R1200R!

So I'm going for a KTM Super Duke: goes great, stops great, quality parts throughout, great riding position for those of us who no longer want to be stretched out over a sportbike ... and great state-of-the-art styling (it even comes in Rockster orange and black, although the black-on-black colour scheme looks good too). And it comes in some way cheaper than a fully-optioned 1200R.

So, sorry BMW, my next bike's a KTM. As my old school report cards used to say, "BMW -- should try harder".

Captain K.

Funny, I was at the KTM dealer yesterday, looking at the 990 and sat on a Super Duke as well. Perhaps if I hadn't already purchased a R1200R I would consider a Super Duke.

But aside from that, I find your post a bit lame. Clearly what BMW had in mind with the R1200R was lost on you, but not lost on those of us who plunked down more money than we should for a bike we wanted to have, which is a choice anyone who buys a BMW is making. Any Japanese bike would certainly be cheaper.

I was going to argue your points but I don't have the time right now. I have to go over to the Bee King forum and tell them all the reasons I didn't buy one.

[NCGS]

I was going to argue your points but I don't have the time right now. I have to go over to the Bee King forum and tell them all the reasons I didn't buy one.

That should be a short post. Would the fact that it (really) is the most Gawd-awful looking POS that ever graced two wheels have something to do with that?..

[tobes]

I was going to argue your points but I don't have the time right now. I have to go over to the Bee King forum and tell them all the reasons I didn't buy one.

[deilenberger]

But aside from that, I find your post a bit lame. Clearly what BMW had in mind with the R1200R was lost on you, but not lost on those of us who plunked down more money than we should for a bike we wanted to have, which is a choice anyone who buys a BMW is making. Any Japanese bike would certainly be cheaper.

I was going to argue your points but I don't have the time right now. I have to go over to the Bee King forum and tell them all the reasons I didn't buy one.

Ditto. I didn't understand the reason for the Kaptain's post.. I'm guessing it's to make all of us foolish enough to buy an R12R sorry we didn't buy a KTM or Rockster..

Motives of some people puzzle me.. sorta drop into a place and pee on the fire..

I think I'll go look for a KTM forum to join so I can tell them why I didn't buy a KTM..

[Skippy]

I actualy want a new V-max @00bhp shaftdrive,abs it's like a Bimmer on steroids Shame I can't afford one though as it's going to be about 23000 euro's

[AllanCook]

Motives of some people puzzle me.. sorta drop into a place and pee on the fire.

Some people live to do that. Bastiges.

[celticus]

" I'm guessing it's to make all of us foolish enough to buy an R12R sorry we didn't buy a KTM or Rockster.."
I guess that point was lost on me.
Mark

[Dan-A]

Aside from the absurdity of the post that started this topic, I just got back from test riding a 990 Adventure at the KTM dealer. I am considering adding a dual sport not replacing the R, and have been impatiently waiting for the F800GS to come out.

So in the mean time I decided to ride the KTM just to see. The engine is responsive, the suspension is firm yet compliant, it has a very high comfortable upright seating position and the riding ergonomics are good.

The seat was hot, prolly from sitting in the sun, but it never got cooler. The mufflers are under the back of the seat so I was wondering if I was "cooking". The throttle was a little "snatchy" from all the way off to just barely on. Maybe just a seat time thing.

Would I buy one? Maybe. My first impression is, it is a bike I would consider. But it didn't scream buy me now (like the R did when I test rode it).

My conclusion is that I will ride a F800GS before I buy anything else.

Side note: The R1200R felt very good when I got back on it to ride away.

[Lost Rider]

In Chicago we have a term that describes the OP I think - A douche bag...

[qfman]

I try not to be too offended when people tell me why they wouldn't/didn't/will never buy a Beemer. It's all about choice and the way that you use your bike. The guys I ride with worship at the altar of the supersports - GSXR1000 etc. When we swap I cant wait to get off the things. And 2K out of a rear tyre? No way !!

My bike has to be very good at a lot of different things. Commute, scratch, tour, pillion, track days etc etc. The R1200R scores well in all areas. The Superduke has some advantages that just aren't outweighed by its shortcomings.

But then, I never understood why people bought the Rockster over the R1150R. To me it seems to be the same bike with a louder paintjob. What's the point?

Tom

.

[Lost Rider]

But then, I never understood why people bought the Rockster over the R1150R. To me it seems to be the same bike with a louder paintjob. What's the point?

Tom

.

It does have a cooler name, and better marketing.

[Echo]

The R1200R is the only bike that keeps me loyal to BMW right now. If they didn't make this bike, I would probably be on a Speed Triple.