Schuberth C3

[deilenberger]

. . . where to order those system 5 from US at a good price?

Nowhere in USA that I could find but http://www.designerhelmets.com/prodlist ... tem+5sells the System 5 for about $400, including shipping.

Thats a very good price. Someone is selling one on the MOA Flea-Market used for $475.. in my size. I was tempted, but not THAT tempted.

$400... hmmmm...

[deilenberger]

Went and checked DesignerHelmets - and the BMW-V is indeed just a bit over $400 delivered to the US.. but.. in looking at the V, it appears BMW dropped the drop-down sun shield that Schuberth has had since the C1. Bummer.. if it wasn't for that I'd be all over the deal. I did notice the C3 delivered from them was closer to $800.. which is simply TOO MUCH MONEY for me. Bummer-II.

Keep your knees loose..

[RougePivoine]

looking at the V, it appears BMW dropped the drop-down sun shield that Schuberth has had since the C1

BMW has re-introduced the sun shield on the new System VI, which was announced in Europe in Fall though has delay in arriving to the shops at the moment. Prices are in the range of the new Schubert C3 over here.

[Bill Stevenson]

I wouldn't despair too much guys. This is a case where the fact that you can't get this item in the USA makes it seem to be far more desirable than it really is. Every Schuberth helmet that I have ever tried was noisy, leaky, and not particularly comfortable. They are nowhere near as nice as Arai helmets. They are technically classified as 3/4 helmets because the chin bar is not particularly strong. I think they are way over-rated and gimicky, with only so so quality of workmanship and materials. A friend in Germany likes his C3 when he rides his K bike with fairing, but finds it not acceptable when he rides an old, un-faired R 60.

Bill

[deilenberger]

I wouldn't despair too much guys. This is a case where the fact that you can't get this item in the USA makes it seem to be far more desirable than it really is. Every Schuberth helmet that I have ever tried was noisy, leaky, and not particularly comfortable. They are nowhere near as nice as Arai helmets. They are technically classified as 3/4 helmets because the chin bar is not particularly strong. I think they are way over-rated and gimicky, with only so so quality of workmanship and materials. A friend in Germany likes his C3 when he rides his K bike with fairing, but finds it not acceptable when he rides an old, un-faired R 60.

Bill

Having had 3 different series Schuberth helmets (from the BMW - System-I to my current C2), I'd beg to differ. Fit/comfort is a matter of head-shape and helmet shape. The Concept series fits my big noggin better than any other helmet I've tried (including Arai.) Gimmicky? Well - if the gimmicks include the drop-down sunshield, or the built-in antifog coating, gimme the gimmicks. Or the gimmick of my being able to put it on OVER my glasses without having to fumble for 5 minutes futilely trying to fit my glasses on after donning a full-face helmet. The gimmicks keep me coming back for more.

The "classification" isn't entirely accurate. Sorry. Seems to be a story that started because there are no Snell tests on flip-face helmets.. and Snell said they'd test them as a 3/4 helmet, which is why no manufacturer's bothered paying Snell to test them (classic Catch-22.) One of those Interwebthingie stories that seems to accepted as truth when the real story is actually different.

The chin bar on the Concept series *has* been tested by the English series of helmet tests and was found to be just as strong as a standard helmet, and not one that opens when it isn't supposed to. I think I posted a link to these tests here some times ago - or someone else posted it...

I'm surprised at your friends findings - I find the Concepts (C1 and C2) most noisy when behind a windshield, and REALLY quiet and comfortable when in clear air. That seems to be a common finding, I remember a few other people saying the same thing. It's a great clear-air helmet. I'd expect the C3 to be the same. The tests on WebBikeWorld gave the C3 an enthusiastic rating. So far that's the only test I've seen - but their tests seem to be uninfluenced by any advertising concerns since all their advertising is semi-random (Google Ad-Words).

I have no doubt your Arai is a wonderful helmet. For you. For some other people. Not for me. Different strokes, different head shapes, and different desires in a helmet. I'd have to posit that the Schuberth head-shape isn't a great match to your noggin. NTTAWWT, but it has to be taken into consideration before condemning them.

[websterize]

I did notice the C3 delivered from them was closer to $800.. which is simply TOO MUCH MONEY for me.

Don, I paid $665 for a white C3, including shipping. I priced my order tonight for about $667, including shipping. Silver and anthracite are just under $700, again including shipping.

That's a lot for a helmet, but I couldn't be more pleased. The C3 fits my head beautifully and is strikingly light. Fit and finish is terrific — it's clear why BMW works with Schuberth. I was more concerned about choosing between a large and extra large than the price.

[deilenberger]

You're right - 697.518 USD for the silver/athracite ones. What size did you get - and when can we meet so I can see a C3?

[Bill Stevenson]

Don,

I think your points about head shape are well taken and I agree with them. For the rest I think you said it best, different strokes. Mine is an Arai head and I find them supremely comfortable, well finished, and strongly supported by excellent service in this market. Shoei, my wife's and son's preference, is also competitive in these crucial areas.

I don't know if you have ever ridden in Germany, but it is an entirely different environment. BMW fairings that seem noisy here, work beautifully over there. I put over 100k miles on two K-RS motorcycles and found the fairings, particularly the little air foil along the top edge, not so great. But when I rode a K-RS in Germany it was a whole nuther matter. In Germany, at the speeds that were possible, the K-RS fairing proved to be really excellent.

In any event, the ergonomics of the bike, fairing, physiology of the rider, and helmet need to be considered holistically within the context of the environment. I can't speak for my German friend or his likes and dislikes of the C3, but he has shared them with me and I reported them accurately.

Schuberth has come and gone from the US market more than once over the years. The problem is the cost to comply with US safety testing and to procure adequate liability coverage, vs. disappointing sales. For a small manufacturer these burdens are not trivial. In the past, too, after sales support was poor (i.e. parts were not stocked) from them in this country and would now be non-existent. I am glad you like your new helmet and I wish you well with it.

Regards,

Bill

[thepeacebullgrunt]

Thanks websterize !

Indeed the guys are nice at designerhelmets I am in contact with them, they provide infos fast with respectable and friendly manners.

For example they told me that the C3 was sizing a bit larger than a C1...almost 1.5 of a size.
I may order from them in last instance but I am still trying to order from a friend in Germany.
Considering the time it take to process that way I might just have to get it from designerhelmets.

[NeilS]

Bill,

Disappointing sales, maybe, but the cost of certification to US standards shouldn't be much of a bar to entry. Snell publishes a price list on its website (http://www.smf.org). To test a helmet design to both the DOT and Snell standards costs only $1500. Ten samples have to be submitted for testing. If the helmets pass, the stickers cost an additional $2 per helmet, and the spot-testing of production helmets is $120 each. Those are 2003 prices and they may have gone up, but it still seems like small potatoes in the overall cost budget.

Liability insurance, I'm sure, is a factor, and one I can't put numbers on. But it stands to reason that insurance should cost a low-volume manufacturer less than it costs a larger player. I'd also think that passing a respected, independent, third-party test like Snell's goes a long way toward satisfying the insurers.

[thepeacebullgrunt]

So now !

Let me ask this : What is the best equivalent of the Schuberth C3 in the Arai line of products ?
(In term of Urban ease of use, Quality manufacturing and Best Safety design...)

Not systematically an Arai flip-up but at least with sun shades...

[Bill Stevenson]

Neil,

The Snell prices you provided are interesting and much less than I thought. Of course it is the DOT sticker that is mandatory rather than Snell, and DOT and Snell requirements are somewhat at odds so getting one does not mean getting the other is a simple matter. Liability insurance is very likely to be sky high because of the potential losses even from frivolous law suits.

Frede,
I own several Arai helmets. My favorite is a SZ-RAM3, which is a 3/4 style. This style is a compromise between protection and ventilation, in South Florida it gets HOT. I use a sun strip across the top of the face shield on all my helmets. I recently discovered that the newest sun strips are crystal clear. I can tilt my head to place the tint where needed and can look through the strip with no distortion at all. Really great. Of course something that used to cost a couple bucks is now up to $20 or more, but these new ones are worth it and can be fitted to any helmet.

Bill

[thepeacebullgrunt]

Thanks Bill !

The SZ-RAM3 look really similar to the J1 from Schuberth it seem to a Urban helmet... I'll take a deeper look at it later but do you have lots of wind that flow under the visor ? The trick with Los Angeles urban setup is that UNDER CALIFORNIAN SUN & SMOG you alternate constantly in between speeding on freeways and getting "stuck" in traffic or just swerving at 15mph in between cars at red lights.

This is why I like the Schuberth flip up....its closed and sealed on freeway and fully open in street surfaces.

[Bill Stevenson]

Frede,

I understand about So. Cal, having lived in San Diego and Long Beach during my Navy days. The Arai SZ-RAM3 has a flip up face shield that seals completely when closed and locked. Since it is open on the bottom, the wind can get underneath it at speed. It works fine for me on my R1200R that is fitted with the BMW "Tall" screen, even at over 100 mph. All I have to do is tilt my head down a wee bit. I am 5'11" tall, and my Bill Mayer saddle is built up about 1.5" to give me more leg room. So I am sitting somewhat high and my head is in clean air. The Arai face shield opens with just the left hand. Much easier to flip up and down when moving than either of my old Schuberths were, but I have no experience with the new C3. I think Don's point about head shape is well taken. Arai and Schuberth really make helmets for very different heads. An Arai fits me better than any other and their finish, materials, and after sales support are second to none. But if they do not fit you well, forget about it.

Bill

[thepeacebullgrunt]

Great post about your safety issue on the other thread Bill !

I received my White Schuberth C3 this morning...and first impressions was...Voww ! this thing is light and small ! I found it comfortable and just tight the way I like.

Fabrication is NEAT NEAT NEAT !

I maybe be a freak but first thing I did was to remove the "Schuberth" reflective stickers in front and rear just to make it completely humble and anonymous...will probably complement it later with some reflective's. those required for French riders.

I will try the beast tomorrow all day under our Californian sun but so far the Helmet is great except the additional antifog screen that somehow feel a little in the way of my eyesight otherwise It works great because I stayed home with all vent closed for 5mns without any fog.
So I guess I may have to get use to it but it's just that different than my old Concept C1 that has a pleasant and wide unobstructed visor.

After a quick night ride I noticed the huge confort while turning the head on right or left at +/-50mph...it was very easy...aerodynamics and weight seems very good.

[websterize]

I'm loving the C3. Hope it works out for you.

I maybe be a freak but first thing I did was to remove the "Schuberth" reflective stickers in front and rear just to make it completely humble and anonymous...will probably complement it later with some reflective's. those required for French riders.

I asked designerhelmets.com if they sold the OEM stickers required in France and didn't get a reply. Anybody have a link for what the Schuberth stickers look like? Probably 3M Scotchlite, no?

[thepeacebullgrunt]

Hi Websterize !

With what do you wash the 3 screens of the C3 ? MainScreen, Fog screen and Sunshade ? reading the instruction it seems to be best to use warm unmineralized water...

On the C1 that I bought in Paris (I carefully selected a Schuberth store next to Channel store...Ah ah ! just joking...)
the reflectors were an elegant ovoid shape that I finally sticked on some neat locations on the bike, which was a 1992 GSX1100G at that time.

I am supposed to work after zuma beach tonight...so ! coming from Pasadena I will have plenty of freeways and PCH roads to ride on during rush hour to evaluate the performance of my Beautiful White Angelic Schuberth C3 !

Now updating the previous lines : I tested the beast enough Yesterday...and have nothing to complain except that it pressurize a little my jaws...I guess its like good shoes, it will break in.
Anti fog works as a charm...
Light weight is great to move head while riding
Acoustic is great and will even be better with custom made earplugs
Vision field is generous and wide open
Sunshade is lighter and clearer than the C1...but I like it that way too
This thing is so Small and light.... it's a cute object...remove the Schuberth tag and a poorly educated eye will think its a well manufactured made in Asia kid helmet.

[websterize]

Hi Websterize !

With what do you wash the 3 screens of the C3 ? MainScreen, Fog screen and Sunshade ? reading the instruction it seems to be best to use warm unmineralized water...

To clean the outside of the Pinlock visor, the manual says to use warm, soapy water. But: "The inside surface of the visor should only be cleaned with a soft and, if necessary, slightly damp cloth (we recommend a microfibre cloth). Do not use any cleaning agents for this."

Apparently they coat the inside of the Pinlock visor and the sun visor with anti-fog chemicals. Using window or glass cleaner will muck up the coating. I rinse bugs from the outside of the Pinlock visor with my thumb and warm water, removing the visor from the helmet beforehand, of course. Haven't touched the sun visor.

Cleaning tips begin on page 101 in the C3 manual.

[snag]

I'm thinking that a grey market Canadian importer might be a solution. We, being a much less Naderized society, get to enjoy the fruits of the European design estetic. The System helmets are available down the street as long as I don't want to ride legally in the US. If one of you want to try and get one through Canada, perhaps I can assist. If one of you want to send me a gift of cash after I ship you my new Schuberth for safe keeping before I come down for that trip of a lifetime, I might be able to help. Financial risk would be your's, but if you want to have a go at it, I'm game.

Doug

[thepeacebullgrunt]

Hi websterize !

I have read the instructions but as usual, the same with the C1, this topic is not precisely covered...

I think I'll go with a warm unmineralized water and a very soft and non plushy clothe on the external side of the main visor, the external side is suppose to resist many chemicals I guess considering all the reports just written about Rain Water toxicity ...then in case I use few drops of soap...I just don't know what soap to use...for sure nothing greasy, waxy or acid.

Same thing for the anti fog screens inside the helmet
I'll go with a warm unmineralized water and few drops of soap but what soap is the safest ? this is my question ?

Hi Snag !

How much is a white Schuberth C3 in Canadian currency ?