R1150R How Long Will It Last?

[bugtussle]

Hi everyone, I tried searching but couldn't fine much info about how many miles these engines will run. With proper maintenance how far will they go? Whats the highest mileage one that you know of? Im going to go look at an 03 with 80K on it thats been really well maintained with all scheduled services. Should I be worried? Thanks for you input!

[Boxer]

What color is it?

[boxermania]

The engine itself is very robust and with proper maintenance will reach well above 100K miles. Boxer, is asking because his had 78K + miles ........

[bugtussle]

Well its a black one. I'm going to look at it today and I'm a little nervous about buying a bike with 80K on it. I will be looking it over closely.

[duegi]

Good question, I've owned two airheads and ridden them well into the 200K miles range. Lots of upkeep for both but no major motor malfunctions, anyone taken their oilhead to that type of mileage?

[DMM]

The rumor is that these engines will last. I know of folks who have 100k plus miles and they were still running well at last report. From what I know (disclaimer: my bike still has fewer than 20k miles), the engine should last; it is the clutch and final drive that may or may not have problems down the road. That said, most reports of those problems occurred before 80k. Still, it is worth asking the owner about those parts and "checking" them as best as you can (Boxer, CycleRob, and others have good recommendations regarding how to check these parts and what else to look for).

[Oilhead]

The rumor is that these engines will last. I know of folks who have 100k plus miles and they were still running well at last report. From what I know (disclaimer: my bike still has fewer than 20k miles), the engine should last; it is the clutch and final drive that may or may not have problems down the road. That said, most reports of those problems occurred before 80k. Still, it is worth asking the owner about those parts and "checking" them as best as you can (Boxer, CycleRob, and others have good recommendations regarding how to check these parts and what else to look for).

I recently saw an ad for a K75(which were known for spline failures as well) in Craigslist. I think the bike had about 70K miles or so. The seller posted a pic of his clutch spline to show that it was practically in mint condition. So I guess you are right that if it has made it to that mileage with no issues, then the spline should last the life of the bike.

[AndyRR]

It's well past it's service life.

Would you mind telling me where it is? There might be a couple parts that aren't totally used up that I could scavenge.

[MIXR]

I'm close to 100,000 miles. Engine is good. No oil use, no smoke, no abnormal noises, good power etc. Splines were checked at 65,000 miles with no real wear. Clutch was replaced on spec while the bike was in bits, as were the box bearings. Paralever bearings were shot at 50,000 miles, but lasted until the 65,000 mile tear-down.

Only reason for the strip was due to flood damage after attempting to cross a floodway that was a bit too deep. Stripped some teeth off the flywheel while pumping the cylinders dry. This is a recognised weakpoint, so make sure the bike starts strongly with no abnormal starter noises as you can find damaged teeth on bikes with high start counts.

Despite what you hear about original shocks not lasting, mine are still good and are the originals. Bikes used on dirt roads may have a chipped alternator belt due to stones entering the housing, so check that at some time after you get it.

Some of the plastics and rubbers can age on these bikes if they are ridden in hot/sunny areas, or stored outside. A good place to look is the plastic caps at the tops of the forks. They are only covers, but if these are split or missing it may be a sign that the bike has been outdoors a lot. Mine split due to many road miles in a hot climate.

Some engine noise (rattles and taps) is normal, but deeper sounding big-end thumps are not.

Best thing is to make sure the bike has been serviced at least every 6,000 miles and presents itself in a good cared-for condition. A bike that looks 'abused' rather than 'used' should be left where it is.

[jrsndman]

Voni Glaves has over 345,000 miles & counting on her R1100RS.

http://web.bigbend.net/users/glaves/ibr.htm

"1994 BMW R1100RS purchased new in May (Mother's Day) 1993.
1100 cc fuel injected, air/oil cooled "Boxer" 2 cylinder motorcycle - still in use with 345,000 miles on the odometer."

[tim]

My 2005 has 100.000 kilometers and is still looking mint and does his job very well.

[CycleRob]

What color is it?

After the few very rare times I helped him work on that bike, that made me laugh. Any OilHead with 80K miles, good service records or not, is not a good purchase choice because of the high risk of clutch hub clutch shaft spline failure. It might be a good one if you are a M/C mechanic and you get it REALLY cheap - - - otherwise, keep looking. There are other issues, like failed driveshaft U-Joint bearings (~$720 for part alone), failed FD bearings and other issues explained below. Since the mid 1970's I have, and will only buy, new bikes, keep them for at least 6 years, then trade'm-in. You might think you cannot do that, but in those 6+ years your dedicated "new bike stash" can easily make it possible -and- you don't have to deal with used bike, high mileage headaches. You'll likely end up spending the same money, riding older used bikes whose lifespan is too near the end.

After buying my R1150R new in July of 2001 and keeping it almost 8 years and 68,000 miles, here's what I learned. It made me extremely happy for the first 40,000+ miles!! We had some wonderful rides together. My wife even liked it better than what I have now. Then after 61,877 miles I took it apart for the clutch shaft spline lube and had to replace the clutch slave and both worn out FD bearings. It was a painful reality check and I decided to get a new bike.

"Experts agree" air cooled engines, everything else being equal, do not last as long as water cooled engines. It has to do with air cooled engine's looser piston tolerances and the nearly unavoidable overcooling in winter and overheating in summer. Those crankcase oil temperature extremes punish all internal moving parts with winter's corrosive condensate build-ups or summer's viscosity thinning oil breakdown. Add to that a rider that takes shorter winter trips (because it's really cold) or high speed summer blasts mixed with gridlocked city/interstate traffic and there is real potential for a much shorter service life.

As you may know, I have towel stuffed the oil cooler tunnels to 100% block the airflow on my memorable 18 mile winter trip to work in temps as low as 38degF (3.3degC). The Daytona digital LCD crankcase oil temp gauge installed confirmed only 172F (77.8C) WITHOUT the towels but about 200F (93.3C) with them. Using the lower gears cruising along to raise the RPM's, oil temps over 220F (104.4C) were easily attained. That burned off the harmful condensates most OilHead winter riders are not aware of.

One other thing that was a most disturbing find when I took the cylinderheads off to DeCarbon the combustion chambers Pic 1 was excessive valve guide wear and valve seat pitting Pic 2. The valves were removed for cleaning stuff like THIS and THIS. The intake valves had w-a-a-a-y too much valvestem side play with only 40,970 miles (65,935km). Although I should have taken the time with the set-up, there was no need to put a dial indicator on it to confirm it was excessive, it was that obvious. Seeing/feeling that amount of wear, ANY experienced mechanic would not classify that engine as a "100,000 mile engine". And that was with owner performed BMW scheduled maintenance, predominately conservative riding, and respectful restraint riding with cold or very hot engine temps. That's my painful truth answer to the question "R1150R How Long Will It Last?" In spite of that, I would still classify that R1150R as one of the 2 best out of 13 bikes I've owned.

BTW, the full engine apart album is HERE.

Yesterday I spoke on the phone to another (satisfied) F800ST rider, volunteering that I would never go back to the Boxer twins . . . . he also replied; "No, no way". Now you know the reasons, besides the gasping extra MSRP dollars required for the very tempting, highly capable R1200R, why I'm riding the great little #1 bike in my signature box below.

.

[Arbreacames]

"Experts agree" should be "In theory...". In practice, however, lots of watercooled engines die prematurely from simple things such as burst hoses, blown gaskets, damaged impellers, air bubbles, etc., while I know of no boxer having "worn out" from overheating or, especially, from under-heating.
I don't understand how a tinkerer like you would find a FD bearing and clutch slave cylinder replacement such a "painful reality check". Also, I see nothing in the pictures that indicates that your engine would have had a hard time going strong past 100k. Have you seen boxers failing from valvestem sideplay-related failures? Valve and lower end failures seem to be extremely rare in these engines.

[ASQTec]

Let's face it folks, 80,000 miles is a lot for any bike. Now if the dude is referring to kilometers...well that's s different story.

If the bike is in nice shape, and the previous owner(s) maintained it, I would risk about a grand on it. I would immediately join the BMWOA (or equivalent) for the roadside assistance.

[boxermania]

I'm not going to get in the middle of the discussion as I'm friends with both Carlos and Robbie, but let me just say that I have one of the valves that Robbie removed from his engine and I saw what was the state of the crosshatch (Nikasil) on the cylinder bore and have drawn my own conclussions.

Likewise, I owned, second hand a 1994 K75 that used to belong to the #2 woman BMW rider and bought it with 123,400 miles, checked it over front to rear, compression, leakdown and rode it for ~ 4000K miles and gave it to my kid brother for his birthday. He used it for the better part of 3 years to go back and forth to work and sold it with 172 K + miles with the only service being, oil, filters, front brake pads and tires.

[Sunbeemer]

I saw what was the state of the crosshatch (Nikasil) on the cylinder bore and have drawn my own conclussions.

Pray tell, Boxermania-san?

[boxermania]

Arigato Sunbeemer

Alusil and Nikasil (electrodeposited matrix of nickel and silicon carbide, originally invented by Mahle in Germany) are coatings designed to be applied directly to auminum cylinders to significantly improve their wear characteristics. They are extremely hard wearing which in essence saves the cylinder surface and the wear takes place at the rings......throw in a set of rigs and VOILA' new life to the engine. The R259 engine has the Nikasil variant, the better of the two mentioned.

Robbie's crosshatch was still visible after about 47 K miles so there wasn't any wear to speak off on the cylinder bore, likewise, I have taken down similar iterations of the Porsche flat six engines with 130 K miles where the crosshatch is still visible....and the engine continued to operate sucessfully past 240 K miles (valve guides and valve seals were replaced along with a valve job, Porsche OEM valve guides were not known for their longevity)

So in closing and regarding the R259 engine durability I'd say that they have plenty of service miles in them, valve guides and potentially valves might be the weak link. Air cooled engines are not the latest technology, but the BMW and Porsche examples are, IMO, very durable and stout engines.

[Sander Abernathy]

How many trees can an axe chop down? The answer is an infinite number of trees. All that is required is that you sharpen it and periodically replace the handle and head of the axe.

Bikes last forever. It's the owner's wallet that fails.

[ASQTec]

Bikes last forever. It's the owner's wallet that fails.

I hate to revive a thread that should have ended somewhere around the fifth post, but this one screams for attention.

I would think that the owner's common sense will kick in long before his wallet fails.

[peterbulgar]

"I would think that the owner's common sense will kick in long before his wallet fails."

If we all had common sense we'd be driving Honda Civics instead of BMW motorcycles. What happens is that I become attached to a bike. it doesn't make sense to spend $2000 on your old cat for vet bills, but people do it all the time. In the last 5 years I've spent far more on my old R75/5 than I would ever get out of it on a sale, but I enjoy the memories that it brings back when I ride it. I'm very much trying to get avoid a similar fixation with my '04 R1150RA, which has 95k miles on it. Would I spend $2500 in repairs for a failed ABS module or input shaft splines? Is it even worth putting in a new clutch, considering how much that costs (about three times what a clutch costs for our Honda Accord)?

On the other hand I've taken two trips to Alaska on my R, and have been on long camping trips two up with my son and my daughter. Every time I get on the bike I think about those rides.

However, the original question was about whether to buy an R with 80k miles. Since you aren't buying whatever memories are associated with the bike, I'd say no unless you are a skilled mechanic with a lot of time. Modern BMWs are expensive to repair at the dealer, and at 80 or 100k you are looking at the possibility of major maintenance in the near future. If you can do the work yourself, and you don't mind doing it, then go for it.
peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA, '06 Kawasaki EX-500