Better not happen in the UK

[firstforward]

Just copied this from a Versys forum:

The French government has had decided the following. Some of the measures can be seen as good, some as bad, depending on your point of view.

1. They are going to remove all speed radar warning signs. Now, they are placed a few hundred meters before speed traps.

2. All radar warning devices (not radar detectors which are already highly illegal) are not allowed, including GPS.

3. Driving, or riding, 50 kph over the speed limit is now considered a crime. Up to a €3750 fine, 3 months prison, 6 points off your driving license and your motorcycle/car confiscated.

4. Driving with low levels of alcohol, up to 0.8 g/l will result in 8 points.

5. Motorcycle license plates will be enlarged, making it easier to photograph. No dimensions have been agreed yet.

6. Fluorescent jackets, yellow or orange must be worn at all times.

7. Any biker who can not prove he/she has ridden a "big" motorcycle in the last 5 years, must take a mandatory re-training before riding a bike again.


Some more of our life being controlled yet again, what can be wrong with GPS units, are there really that many accidents because of their use or is it just to stop radar warning devices, why not remove all speed signs, its the same perverse logic or am I missing something here.

[r12gecko]

I don't get the GPS part - you mean all GPS units are to be banned because some have radar detectors built-in, or are they targeting GPS as a distraction.

I like the mandatory training part - that to me would deal with much of the foolishness we see. But it's not everything - just yesterday as I was about to initiate a simple right hand turn from a standing stop, I was nearly taken down by two bicyclists racing down a hill on the wrong side of the road who suddenly appeared to me (and me to them, I am sure) out of the blind corner to my right. I got on the brake just in time, and as they whizzed past in front of me, veering & wobbling, I at least had the satisfaction of knowing they heard me yell "What the f--- is wrong with you guys?!" (These weren't kids, either; they were guys old enough to hold a driver's licence.)

[mogu83]

The government (any government) has to do something or we might realize we really don't need them in our lives every day - and motorcycles and motorcyclists are an easy target. Recently my home state about doubled the fee to put a motorcycle on the road (registration fee). I related this injustice to my sons (all who grew up on the back of a bike - but don't ride) their immediate reaction was - 'But it's ONLY for motorcycles right'.
Nationally our Government has alloted funds to the States to stop and 'safety inspect' only motorcycles. While to the non motorcycling public this seems like a good idea, in practice it allows local law enforcement to single out a small percentage of motorists for harassment and has become a revenue source.

About the only thing we (motorcyclists) can do is join a national organization that can address our grievances at the highest government levels. In the US we have the AMA (American Motorcyclists Association).


Please excuse the rant - I hope it's not out of line.

[websterize]

… what can be wrong with GPS units, are there really that many accidents because of their use or is it just to stop radar warning devices

Bingo — because you can upload locations of fixed speed cameras into a GPS and configure proximity alerts, removing the element of surprise. Leveling the playing field or gaming the system? Probably both.

[Stef.]

THE GPS part is really bizarre!
Stef.

[deilenberger]

It's worth doing a Google on "remove all speed radar warning signs"..

ALL the results were based on exactly the same message (same wording) - and there were no reports from what I'd consider reputable sources. All the copied material appeared on bike forums and blogs, rather obviously from people quoting from other forums and blogs.

It isn't on Snopes yet - so no authentication there.. but there is an interesting link, which describes the NEW radar warning sign France is using as of 2010. Instead of specifically saying "Radar 121.22 meters ahead" it now warns that radar is in use in some range of Km. More or less the same as the US where the standard warning is "Speed checked by radar".. with no distance/location specified - if any warning is given.

Given the sensational nature of the claims on this - I call an Internet rumor on it... there may be some small basis in fact behind it, but the claim on GPS's just sounds too hokey to believe. As wacky as the French are - the government in France always has to avoid getting the citizens too annoyed since they tend to go on strike and have revolutions (and beheadings) when they get pissed off. I call BS on it.

BTW - here is the new sign:


Feel free to prove me wrong - but lets make it a verifiable source, not another forum posting copy of the same thing.

[Catchina]

They probably don't want people looking at this web site before driving in France either
http://english.controleradar.org/

[websterize]

Seems legit. Here's a release from the office of the French prime minister, who wants to enact stricter motoring laws by June. But the translation of the GPS part is murky:

The penalties for driving with a screen device in operation in the field of vision (other aid to the conduct and navigation GPS type) will be compounded: the withdrawal of three points and fined 1,500 euros (fixed fine for this offense is now 135-euro fine and the withdrawal of two points). Violators could face also with the seizure of the screen device.

Pour aider la grande majorité des conducteurs soucieux de respecter les limitations de vitesse à le faire, toutes les technologies permettant de mieux contrôler sa vitesse seront favorisées : information sur les limitations de vitesse par les GPS, incitation au bridage volontaire des moteurs ou à l'installation d'un limiteur volontaire de vitesse.

Maybe a native speaker could improve the Google translation.

[ContraMoto]

The release seems not remotely related to the original rumor-report...simply a ban on texting/phoning/watching videos in a car. GPS viewing is still allowed...don't know what the fuss would be about.

BTW -- free speech rulings in the US explicitly protect the constitutional right to share information about radar traps, speed-camera robots, traffic cameras, etc. Falls easily into the "keeping an eye on what the government is up to..." realm of citizenship.

But -- a radar detector is not constitutionally protected. Wherever they are banned, they are banned.

[websterize]

The release seems not remotely related to the original rumor-report...simply a ban on texting/phoning/watching videos in a car. GPS viewing is still allowed...don't know what the fuss would be about.

I don't follow. The release, from the French government, is the original report, and many points of the initial post match this primary source.

[Catchina]

From that original French site...

Pour aider la grande majorité des conducteurs soucieux de respecter les limitations de vitesse à le faire, toutes les technologies permettant de mieux contrôler sa vitesse seront favorisées : information sur les limitations de vitesse par les GPS, incitation au bridage volontaire des moteurs ou à l’installation d’un limiteur volontaire de vitesse. Ces mesures seront favorisées par la mise en place d’un label « voiture sûre », qui reconnaîtra le niveau d’équipement de sécurité du véhicule ; ce label doit faire l’objet de discussions qui vont être engagées avec les industriels, les associations et les assureurs.

I won't translate word for word but it does not say anything about banning GPS. In fact it says something like - to help the majority of drivers respect the speed limits all technologies that assist in controlling your speed will be supported: information on speed limits via GPS, installation of a voluntary governor, speed limiting devices built into the car etc. These measures will be encouraged by a "safe car" label that will recognize the level of safety equipment in the car, this label has to be discussed with the auto industry and insurerers.

[deilenberger]

When I poked around using Google - apparently there had been instances in 2007 or so of French Police confiscating GPS's found to have downloaded POI's that showed radar traps/cameras.. they claimed they were a form of radar detector. There was a later report of a judicial decision that this was an illegal action on the part of the police, and the GPS's were to be returned. Sounds like someone dug up half facts and tossed together a nice scare posting - which then became "fact" when it was copied from website to website. Sort of how the Internetz works - facts aren't a top priority when sensationalism rules.

Meanwhile they have bigger eggs to fry with a Presidential candidate (accused of) trying to rape a maid in NYC..

[sjbmw]

I just installed Trapster on my SmartPhone.

http://trapster.com

Live speed trap discovery and reporting.

[Sander Abernathy]

Perhaps this is an internet scam but if so, the NY Times fell for it. Here's a link to an article on the nytimes.com website that discusses what is actually occurring in France in regard to speeding, speed detection devices, speed detection device detection devices and signs notifying the public of speed detection devices.

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05 ... overnment/

I had the very good fortune to live in France for a bit and in far less than the time it takes to acquire a resident's visa or a bill for dinner in a mediocre brasserie one learns that passing laws is a national sport in France. The laws are always ridiculous and can agitate one to no end. However, the key fact to keep in mind is that in France the laws only apply to others and never one's self. The laws are passed because if "others" follow the laws society will benefit, however, each man's liberte is too sacred to be infringed upon by mere laws...intended solely for others. The same principle applies to queues in France; they are wonderful devices to maintain order which each individual is perfectly in his or her rights to ignore and go directly to the person who is attempting to serve those in the queue.

The cameras have been in place for 7 or 8 years already according to the NY Times article, though I recall them on the autoroutes in 1999 and roughly one in six licensed vehicles are ticketed each year. Roughly one in six also have the devices that notify the driver of the location of speed detection cameras. It's no doubt annoying and agitating but that's what you get when you have a government. All a government is really good for is to screw with the citizens it is supposed to serve. If the government wanted to reduce pain and suffering from traffic injuries and fatalities they would find a way to do so that didn't involve taking money from citizens and sticking it in its own coffers.

The day is coming when the cameras will be abandoned because your car or motorcycle will report you if you speed. One insurance company in Georgia (Progressive I believe) is already offering to install devices in the cars of its customers that record the owner's driving habits. In exchange for permitting the device to be installed, the insurer offers lower premiums if the driving habits are deemed acceptable and one must presume higher premiums or policy cancellation if the driving habits are deemed unacceptable. (Sign me up! I'd love to see the look on the face of someone that reviewed my driving activity for the last three months. LOL)

Cars sold today in the US already have a black box that records and retains the last 30 seconds of data that goes through the vehicles computer including such data as speed, tire slippage, and inputs from the accelerator, steering wheel and brakes. While today it is uncommon for that data to be accessed and used in an accident investigation, rest assured the data is there and it will be commonly used in accident investigations sometime in the future.

[SDMAX]

Big Brother Sucks! Drove about 2500 miles in France last year; rental car; always way over the speed limit; ignored the radar signs and the photo signs as I couldn't figure out what they meant.

I ran 95 MPH or so everywhere, no idea what that would be in kilometers...I just know on the open road I rolled. Not in the cities and not on the secondary roads as in Normandy...

Anyway, no blow back from the rental car companies. I'm sure I got my picture taken a lot.

Friend in US Embassy says several hundred motorcycle riders are killed in Paris and environs every year...which I can believe as we were in rush hour coming back into Paris on a Friday afternoon, stop and go and we had lane splitters at 60-80 MPH in long single file lines of up to 50 motorcycles blowing down between the stopped cars....this happened all the time.

High powered scooters are just as bad.

Yup day will come when your 50 amp electric car will turn you in for 37 mph. Tree huggers will win out....then in another 100 years there may be another revolution... or everyone will just be all happy to be all uniform and boring...it will truly suck, but I won't be around .... at this point I'm going to keep on rocking in the free world.