Low Speed Steering - Again

[Bogdan]

Seems my post was buried at the end of the thread - either that or it was considered beneath a reply. Oh well....I'll start a new thread and try again as I am curious about this.

Must say was surprised by the answers to cgguy's question about low speed steering; everyone agreed there was a problem.

My ride is a 2004 R1150R with 27k miles; it exhibits the same characteristics described: rock solid at over 100mph, fine in the twisties but....pulls, a bit, toward the turn at low speeds. This is my first bike with this type of front end. I thought this was simply normal paralever behavior and not especially bothersome. I should add that I bought the bike 20 months ago from a BMW mechanic up in Canada. This man used to be a dealer who now works out of his garage. On meeting him I was impressed with his expertise. This bike was his main ride for a couple of years. I didn't/don't think he would sell me a ride with a glaring fault. Also, FWIW..on his advice I do keep the tire pressure rather high - 38f and 40r. Could it be, cgguy, that you're chasing a problem that doesn't exist? or......that I'm living with a defect that I thought normal?

Bogdan, puzzled in Colorado

[kirby]

OK, I think if you read his post you will see that it was more than a little turn in at slow speed. It turns out that he was running 30 psi in the front .With a machine of this weight, that kind of low pressure will cause what he has described.

After more than 300K on telever (paralever is the rear) fronts I have never experienced what you describe except on badly warn sides of the front tire or low pressure due to an impending flat.

You may be ultra sensitive or just to get used to the feel of your machine.

Hope that sheds some light on your puzzle!

:-)

[towerworker]

FWIW--I've been running 40-41psi in the front and 42-43 rear. Handling is light and quick. Braking feels positive. I read on a forum somewhere (can't remember where) about bumping pressures 10%. I guess I've been doing that now for about 7K. Tire wear seems to be better, I'll know for sure next tire change but for now it seems like a move in the right direction. Bike is an '04 with 76K. Runs like a scalded dog.

[riceburner]

Runs like a scalded dog.

Round and round in confused circles making whimpering noises??





I'd get that seen to if I were you.

[peels]

bad tire. then pressure. for day to day, iv'e settled on a little more in front. 36 R 38 F if i'm setting out a on a slabber, Ill make the rear bit more, due to loading.

I can tell you, a low front tire RUINS the handling of my bike. specifically at slow speed.

the only mechanical things that could cause that are shot bearings... or something wrong with alignment(not easily possible on these bikes without a major accident)

[cgguy09]

Hey team,
I have another wrinkle to add to this quest for the truth.

As you may recall, I used another gauge and realized my tire pressure was way off, by about 10 PSI. I filled up my tires and it felt great!

To make sure this didn't happen again, I got a nice digital gauge, a TEKTON 5941 Digital Tire Gauge. It arrived yesterday and I tested my tires. To my surprise it registered 45PSI and 48 PSI (front and back). I thought this was crazy, soI went to my car, where I had a brand new analog gauge, and it too said 45 & 48 PSI.

So, I drained the air out and to 34 & 36 PSI, and the same steering problems popped up!!!

So, that leaves me with two hypothesis: Either two tire gauges are off, or there is something wrong with my tire(s).

I have the Pilot Road 4 GT's for my bike. I've only used the Pilot Road 4(regular) before & I've never had an issue.

Seems my post was buried at the end of the thread - either that or it was considered beneath a reply. Oh well....I'll start a new thread and try again as I am curious about this.

Must say was surprised by the answers to cgguy's question about low speed steering; everyone agreed there was a problem.

My ride is a 2004 R1150R with 27k miles; it exhibits the same characteristics described: rock solid at over 100mph, fine in the twisties but....pulls, a bit, toward the turn at low speeds. This is my first bike with this type of front end. I thought this was simply normal paralever behavior and not especially bothersome. I should add that I bought the bike 20 months ago from a BMW mechanic up in Canada. This man used to be a dealer who now works out of his garage. On meeting him I was impressed with his expertise. This bike was his main ride for a couple of years. I didn't/don't think he would sell me a ride with a glaring fault. Also, FWIW..on his advice I do keep the tire pressure rather high - 38f and 40r. Could it be, cgguy, that you're chasing a problem that doesn't exist? or......that I'm living with a defect that I thought normal?

Bogdan, puzzled in Colorado

So, in response to your comment, the fact the problem goes away at such high PSI tells me there is a problem, I had my last rockster for 35K miles over 2 years and I never noticed it once. I'm sure I could just ignore it...but, as my fiancé will tell you, I can't sleep when I'm ignoring problems!!

Another update, I just called up Michelin...they said it sounds like a failed side wall, they are paying for an inspection and if necessary a replacement. It was pretty easy, I jut called their 1800 number.

[kirby]

Ok tell the story, just what kind of riding have you been do'in?

Ruining a tire like that must have a story or are you just lucky?

[maccraith]

I am sending you a link to the Ohlins suspension owners manual. And while you may not have an Ohlins suspension, there is a lot of information in the manual about motorcycle suspension, how suspension adjustments affect steering and handling, and how to make adjustments. I think you may find some worthwhile information here.


https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzTBY ... W9aWjV3bk0

[cgguy09]

I am sending you a link to the Ohlins suspension owners manual. And while you may not have an Ohlins suspension, there is a lot of information in the manual about motorcycle suspension, how suspension adjustments affect steering and handling, and how to make adjustments. I think you may find some worthwhile information here.


https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzTBY ... W9aWjV3bk0

Thanks! I'll take a look at it today. FWIW, there was a little place in the swing arm. At least I think there was...long story short, I switched the torque values on the left and right pins...and now I have more work on my hands...Let's just say I'll have an opportunity to grease the input spline shaft

[cgguy09]

I'm bringing this back....I'm thinking my problem might be the Pivot Ball Joint on the Tele-lever... I've done some reading & there are few threads that name this as culprit for "peculiar" steering habits.

The one notable thing is no one can quite define the "feeling" some people call it "heavy steering" others call it "Light" others call it "suction or pull" I might bite the bullet and replace it...the part is roughly $150

[swamper]

Been running 26-28 in the front at track days. Recommended by Reg Pridmore.

[cgguy09]

Solution:

So, I loosened & retightened the nut connecting the telelever to the fork bridge via the pivot ball joint, and it feels like it made all the difference. As noted by a friend of mine, the part fiche state's a new BMW pre-loctited nut should be used in a rebuild . As for now, I just cleaned it, put some blue Loctite on it, and put it back on with the proper torque specs. (I'll pick up a new part this weekend).

(AON I haven't attempted to grease the pinion as other threads have advised.)

I took it for about a 10 mile ride & it felt amazing! Like a real BMW again. I'll monitor it the next couple days & see how it feels.

[Bogdan]

Wow !! I'm impressed, cgguy. An intrepid quest till a solution was found. I'm puzzled, however, as to why you still intend to install the new part? I intend to perform this operation myself. Hopefully, this nut's location " telelever to fork bridge via pivot ball joint " will be obvious. Still a strange situation - normally handling weirdness increases with speed. In this case increased speed makes the symptom disappear.

[cgguy09]

Wow !! I'm impressed, cgguy. An intrepid quest till a solution was found. I'm puzzled, however, as to why you still intend to install the new part? I intend to perform this operation myself. Hopefully, this nut's location " telelever to fork bridge via pivot ball joint " will be obvious. Still a strange situation - normally handling weirdness increases with speed. In this case increased speed makes the symptom disappear.

Thanks, I have to admit, it is quite weird. This was the last place I would think to look...and in fact, it was the last place I looked. I'll keep putting miles on it & see if I notice any symptoms. If I do, I'll take it to a shop and have them replace it. The local shop said they can do it in 1.5 hour, so With the part it's not horrible. Either that, or I'll just take off the lower fork bridge myself and service it in a vice.

If I need to do it, I'll do a write up about it!