What exactly is the drawback to having a belt final drive equiped motorcyle in an off-road or loose gravel road situation, as opposed to a chain drive? Aren't both designed to handle ingesting a little dust, grit, and bits of stone?
I notice the new Buell Ulysses is a "dual sport" with a belt drive. I have a big hankering for a dual purpose bike, and would like to think that American motorcycle companies would realize that alot of us would like to get out there in our own back yards (and waaay beyond for some of us.) Will Victory put one out? Boss Hoss? Jeep?
Thanks
Glen
Dual sport with belt drive?
Moderator: Moderators
Ulysses is actually an "Adventure Sport"...to clear up any cunfusion! 
Victory may be your best bet since they just bought a significant interst in KTM.
Boss Hoss? Are you kidding?
Jeep is hardly made to go offroad anymore! Despite their "trail rated" campaign, no stock Jeep is really that great off-road...unless your version of off-road is gravel.
Victory may be your best bet since they just bought a significant interst in KTM.
Boss Hoss? Are you kidding?
Jeep is hardly made to go offroad anymore! Despite their "trail rated" campaign, no stock Jeep is really that great off-road...unless your version of off-road is gravel.
"If you can't say anything nice, at least have the decency to be vague."
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Optimus Prime
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ofrogg, you would be talking about a variant of the R-GS.
What I said,
What I said,
Mr Prime is quiet warm,BMW has a new lighter GS type comming out, I am not talking about the R1200GS or any of its variants.
Any more said would result in a loss of fingersOk Grandpa-hoon. Spill the beans. I'm anxiously waiting for news about all the new Twin models, Aprilia type singles, and the K1200S derived GT. What's coming down the pipe?
Dean-O
Member #33
Member #33
Re: Jeeps
My dad's Rubi was worthless stock. He put about $4k into it and it's better, but it was also $28k to start with, so you can have it!OrangeTJ wrote:Gotta disagree on the Jeep comment, at least as it pertains to the TJ Wrangler and particularly the "Rubicon" models. You might be suprised how well these things do off road in stock configuration.
"If you can't say anything nice, at least have the decency to be vague."
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Optimus Prime
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I know, I know. I have heard some things (not as much as you, I'm sure) and you can kind of add things up. I'm really excited about the ones coming down the line. I'm really looking for the twin tourer, the next small GS, and possibly the k1200gt. I'm hoping we get some official word end of semptember.Deans BMW wrote:ofrogg, you would be talking about a variant of the R-GS.
What I said,
Mr Prime is quiet warm,BMW has a new lighter GS type comming out, I am not talking about the R1200GS or any of its variants.
Any more said would result in a loss of fingersOk Grandpa-hoon. Spill the beans. I'm anxiously waiting for news about all the new Twin models, Aprilia type singles, and the K1200S derived GT. What's coming down the pipe?
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FGanger
latakia77/Glen,
As I understand it, a stone getting between the belt and the toothed pulley would/could damage the belt. Now, you might ask, how Buell can suggest their belt drive can go off road and not worry about stones and such getting in-between and causing damage?
An excellent question, I wish I had a reasonable answer. When Harley was well past having teething problems with their belt drive, BMW started using it on the 650 CS. Boy did they have problems, both with the belts and the pulleys. Any thought of using the drive on the 650 GS was put on the back burner.
Now to the current time. Buell/Harley are starting to give lifetime warranties on the belt drives, apparently even to a machine designed to spend some time off road. To my mind it really does not matter how much off road is done; gravel is the real concern. If it can hold up under gravel usage - why not? Also if it works for Buell why not BMW? The power output is not that much different. Does Harley know something about engineering that BMW does not know? I believe Harley knows a lot more about marketing than BMW, but engineering? Nah!
I hope this helps,
Frank
As I understand it, a stone getting between the belt and the toothed pulley would/could damage the belt. Now, you might ask, how Buell can suggest their belt drive can go off road and not worry about stones and such getting in-between and causing damage?
An excellent question, I wish I had a reasonable answer. When Harley was well past having teething problems with their belt drive, BMW started using it on the 650 CS. Boy did they have problems, both with the belts and the pulleys. Any thought of using the drive on the 650 GS was put on the back burner.
Now to the current time. Buell/Harley are starting to give lifetime warranties on the belt drives, apparently even to a machine designed to spend some time off road. To my mind it really does not matter how much off road is done; gravel is the real concern. If it can hold up under gravel usage - why not? Also if it works for Buell why not BMW? The power output is not that much different. Does Harley know something about engineering that BMW does not know? I believe Harley knows a lot more about marketing than BMW, but engineering? Nah!
I hope this helps,
Frank
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soggybottom
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I've done some 4 wheeling in my day, I presently have a YJ, I take it places I wouldn't dare take the KLR or GS I have owned, mainly cross rivers with bottom paved with 5"-12 ' bolders. water up to 2' deep swift moving. Jeep has 2" shackle lift $50, 31x10.5 tires cost about $20 each over stock. Can't think of anywhere a dualsport can go that my jeep can't beside a short cut single track through forests and deserts, The explorations I do in the wilderness is off old fire roads and usually require some hiking once you get deep in. Been across rivers on quads but never on a 2 wheeler.
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yjleesvrr
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Any four wheeled vehicle (or a tricycle) will have something a two wheeled vehicle simply does not have - lateral stability. So any obstacle that is tall but narrow such as a rock will easily shift a bike to either side and thus present that feeling of instability.
From mountain biking, I know that it is easier to negotiate a moderately rough terrain by going fast rather than going slow. After all, a bicycle or motorcycle feels more stable the faster you go. Thus the idea of going off road with a bike like the R1200GS or the new Buell is not good because you're likely to bottom the suspension out unless mother earth does a good imitation of a road. Hence real dirt bikes have tremendous suspension travel.
Buell can get away with that belt drive because it knows
1) Most riders will keep it on the tarmac 99.9% of the time
2) Any fool willing to take a $12k bike on a serious off-road adventure can afford the replace the belt if a rock damages it.
From mountain biking, I know that it is easier to negotiate a moderately rough terrain by going fast rather than going slow. After all, a bicycle or motorcycle feels more stable the faster you go. Thus the idea of going off road with a bike like the R1200GS or the new Buell is not good because you're likely to bottom the suspension out unless mother earth does a good imitation of a road. Hence real dirt bikes have tremendous suspension travel.
Buell can get away with that belt drive because it knows
1) Most riders will keep it on the tarmac 99.9% of the time
2) Any fool willing to take a $12k bike on a serious off-road adventure can afford the replace the belt if a rock damages it.
Member #93, June 2002
'14 BMW R1200RT "Wethead"
'77 BMW R100/7 "Airhead"
'14 BMW R1200RT "Wethead"
'77 BMW R100/7 "Airhead"
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FGanger
Frank's point about stones and other debris is valid. But, this can be overcome with good use of fairings or even totally contained units.
Another issue is that a belt needs to operate within a fairly strict range of tightness. The longer the suspension travel, the more slack needs to be availabble. Dirt bikes need long suspension travel. Again, this can be overcome. Tension devices can keep the slack contained when it isn't needed.
In the end, I would suggest that a belt drive could do a great job off-road as long as the basic precautionary devices were built in.
Another issue is that a belt needs to operate within a fairly strict range of tightness. The longer the suspension travel, the more slack needs to be availabble. Dirt bikes need long suspension travel. Again, this can be overcome. Tension devices can keep the slack contained when it isn't needed.
In the end, I would suggest that a belt drive could do a great job off-road as long as the basic precautionary devices were built in.
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.
Mark Twain
Mark Twain
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The Velvet Monkey
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Belts
It's my understanding that Buell contracted with Goodyear who built a belt capable of overcoming any reasonable quanitity of rocks and debris. THis new belt proved so durable that it is not intended to be replaced during the bikes lifetime.
That Ulysses is one great looking bike. There offering a test ride in Tampa, Florida in early October and I'll be getting up there to throw a leg over.
That Ulysses is one great looking bike. There offering a test ride in Tampa, Florida in early October and I'll be getting up there to throw a leg over.
2004 50R a.k.a. "Hiedi"
No!!! Bad monkey!!
No!!! Bad monkey!!
