Any thoughts on replacting our stock cat with the staintune collector box but keeping the stock can on! I think the stock can looks better than any of the aftermarket systems, inclucing the staintune. Just wondering what the thoughts are on doing this? Whats the point? Would there be any gain except the loss of heat? Would i have some smoothness and maybe a little more noise?
Thanks
Opinions on Staintune Collector Box
Moderator: Moderators
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dallara
Staintune "Box"...
Ran my R-1150-R for a long, long time with a Staintune collector "box" and the stock muffler...
Increase in noise was minimal, but the improvement in throttle response was dramatic. Engine revved much more freely, and hence, acceleration was improved. Was hard to tell if there was any big increase in peak horsepower, but the bike felt like there was definitely more punch in the mid-range.
It will shock you how unbelievably *HEAVY* the stock catalytic converter is, and how much weight you'll lose replacing it with the Staintune collector box.
But the most dramatic and welcome improvement (for me, anyway...) was the incredibly welcome reduction in *HEAT* off the bloody catalytic converter. The difference there was staggering, especially around your ankles when your feet are down in traffic... That loss of heat has to make life easier on the gearbox, too.
I now run it with a Neptune (from New Zealand) muffler, though I have kept the stock muffler around for a back-up.
Here's a pic of the Staintune collector "box" with the Neptune muffler:
You can easily see how much less space the Staintune occupies under the bike, too.
Hope this helps!
Dallara
Increase in noise was minimal, but the improvement in throttle response was dramatic. Engine revved much more freely, and hence, acceleration was improved. Was hard to tell if there was any big increase in peak horsepower, but the bike felt like there was definitely more punch in the mid-range.
It will shock you how unbelievably *HEAVY* the stock catalytic converter is, and how much weight you'll lose replacing it with the Staintune collector box.
But the most dramatic and welcome improvement (for me, anyway...) was the incredibly welcome reduction in *HEAT* off the bloody catalytic converter. The difference there was staggering, especially around your ankles when your feet are down in traffic... That loss of heat has to make life easier on the gearbox, too.
I now run it with a Neptune (from New Zealand) muffler, though I have kept the stock muffler around for a back-up.
Here's a pic of the Staintune collector "box" with the Neptune muffler:
You can easily see how much less space the Staintune occupies under the bike, too.
Hope this helps!
Dallara
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gearhead
Dallara, thanks for the info, that is exactly what i was looking for! Just a follow up, was there any loss in the low end torque arena..I have heard that Y pipes loose a little low end torque but then again, this is not a Y pipe. Also, is there any downside to loosing the cat, any affect on the computer or integrity of the bike?
thanks much
thanks much
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gearhead
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dallara
I haven't found any downside...
I haven'r found *ANY* downside to the loss of the catalytic converter and replacing it with the Staintune... Not single thing.
As for low-end torque... If anything I would have to say, from the seat of the pants, that low-end torque was increased over stock... Of course, that could simply be that it revs quicker and pulls through the lower rev range with more authority and so it feels like torque is up. There is most definitely a gain in the mid-range.
Or maybe it is just that the bike has less weight to haul around...
Regarding the computer, etc... Plug readings before and after mounting the Staintune showed absolutely no difference, and if anything gas mileage improved.
There was some popping, spitting, and backfiring occasionally on deceleration when I ran the stock muffler with the Staintune, but it didn't bother me. Oddly enough this all disappeared when I mounted the Neptune muffler.
Integrity of mounting... Mounts just like the stock cat, and seems solid as a rock. Works perfect with the centerstand, and the welds on the Staintune are just flat gorgeous. Material is plenty substantial enough, and IMHO the Staintune would easily last the life of the bike.
Would I buy a Staintune collector "box" again to replace the catalytic converter?
Absolutely! In a heartbeat.
Cheers!
Dallara
As for low-end torque... If anything I would have to say, from the seat of the pants, that low-end torque was increased over stock... Of course, that could simply be that it revs quicker and pulls through the lower rev range with more authority and so it feels like torque is up. There is most definitely a gain in the mid-range.
Or maybe it is just that the bike has less weight to haul around...
Regarding the computer, etc... Plug readings before and after mounting the Staintune showed absolutely no difference, and if anything gas mileage improved.
There was some popping, spitting, and backfiring occasionally on deceleration when I ran the stock muffler with the Staintune, but it didn't bother me. Oddly enough this all disappeared when I mounted the Neptune muffler.
Integrity of mounting... Mounts just like the stock cat, and seems solid as a rock. Works perfect with the centerstand, and the welds on the Staintune are just flat gorgeous. Material is plenty substantial enough, and IMHO the Staintune would easily last the life of the bike.
Would I buy a Staintune collector "box" again to replace the catalytic converter?
Absolutely! In a heartbeat.
Cheers!
Dallara
Re: Opinions on Staintune Collector Box
This says it all from my perspective....gearhead wrote:Any thoughts on replacting our stock cat with the staintune collector box but keeping the stock can on! I think the stock can looks better than any of the aftermarket systems, inclucing the staintune. Just wondering what the thoughts are on doing this? Whats the point? Would there be any gain except the loss of heat? Would i have some smoothness and maybe a little more noise?
Thanks
http://www.r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.p ... highlight=
j magda
TripleLifer Member 454
04 Black (the Classiest Color) R1150R
Deep in the OH wasteland...
TripleLifer Member 454
04 Black (the Classiest Color) R1150R
Deep in the OH wasteland...
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dallara
Warranty...
Gearhead asked:
I think it really depends on the relationship you have with your dealer. My warranty expired on my 2002 R-1150-R back this past June, but I had the Staintune on there for over year at that point. During that time my bike was back at my chosen dealer only once... When I decided to let them do the 6,000 mile service and mount up two new tires. While it was there I asked about warranty issues with the Staintune (I had the stock muffler mounted to the bike at the time with the Staintune collector), and was told it was not a problem... Of course, this particular shop has been a respected BMW dealer for decades, and they sell Staintune products there (though I didn't get mine there).
Two quick points...
I used to be a Honda dealer, and it would be very difficult (in our state, anyway, which has some laws about these things..) for a manufacturer to decline a warranty claim based on the fitment of something like the Staintune if that part had absolutely nothing to do with whatever was being considered for the warranty claim... i.e. if your alternator failed under warranty, the manufacturer would be hard pressed to say the replacement of the catalytic converter could have anything to do with an alternator failure. Yet, you might be walking on pretty thin ice if, say, a header pipe cracked and you wanted it replaced under warranty...
But that said, and this is where I say it all really depends on the dealer and your relationship with him... It is in the dealer's best interest to try and get any honest warranty claim for a customer paid by the factory.
Why?
Well, though the manufacturer pays the dealer for a warranty claim, that is not where a dealer makes his money. We used to have a saying in the car and motorcycle business - "Our dealership's payroll walks in and out of here on two feet." - Meaning that it was the customer who paid us all in the store, not the factory. If the dealer wants to foster good customer relations and get repeat business from those customer it is important to him to try and keep those customers happy, and as such to actually fight *for* the customer with the factory on any legitimate warranty claim. It stood me in good stead with my customers (and the factory, in the form of good CSI - Customer Service Index - scores, meaning few customer complaints) for years, and still does today in our car stores.
But again this all depends on the dealer and his attitude, but also on the customer and his attitude. It is why I always say around this board that one should try and find a good dealer, get to know him, and work *with* him... do as much business there as possible, tell him your concerns when you have them, but don't rant and rave and demand all sorts of things. Be logical and direct, and most of all honest, and expect the same from him. It is amazing how well this works if both parties have the proper mindset.
Problem is, of course, there are crappy dealers, to be sure... But there are also crappy customers. I know it's often hard, when your pride and joy bike (that you paid a lot of money for) suddenly breaks down, and you are ticked off and frustrated... But all too often a customer comes in carrying this mental baggage with him, and a chip on his shoulder, and it simply starts the whole process off on the wrong foot, and once that happens it is hard for either side to recover the ball.
Got a warranty problem? Go into the *good* dealer you have picked out, be calm, cool, concise, and business-like and describe the issue, and work with him to get it resolved. Most dealers are just like you, and actually want to find a "win-win" scenario whenever there is a problem.
So, regarding the Staintune and warranty... IMHO, it is up to you, the dealer you do business with, and what kind of relationship the two of you have... (and sometimes the laws in your state, too, that bind the factories pretty tight in some).
Hope this helps!
Dallara
And guest1 also asked:and then there is the "loss of warranty" issue...Say it aint so cause it is very tempting
Interesting questions, and I haven't had to get any warranty work done, so I don't know for sure, but...If the cat is gone, has anyone been able to get warranty work done?
I think it really depends on the relationship you have with your dealer. My warranty expired on my 2002 R-1150-R back this past June, but I had the Staintune on there for over year at that point. During that time my bike was back at my chosen dealer only once... When I decided to let them do the 6,000 mile service and mount up two new tires. While it was there I asked about warranty issues with the Staintune (I had the stock muffler mounted to the bike at the time with the Staintune collector), and was told it was not a problem... Of course, this particular shop has been a respected BMW dealer for decades, and they sell Staintune products there (though I didn't get mine there).
Two quick points...
I used to be a Honda dealer, and it would be very difficult (in our state, anyway, which has some laws about these things..) for a manufacturer to decline a warranty claim based on the fitment of something like the Staintune if that part had absolutely nothing to do with whatever was being considered for the warranty claim... i.e. if your alternator failed under warranty, the manufacturer would be hard pressed to say the replacement of the catalytic converter could have anything to do with an alternator failure. Yet, you might be walking on pretty thin ice if, say, a header pipe cracked and you wanted it replaced under warranty...
But that said, and this is where I say it all really depends on the dealer and your relationship with him... It is in the dealer's best interest to try and get any honest warranty claim for a customer paid by the factory.
Why?
Well, though the manufacturer pays the dealer for a warranty claim, that is not where a dealer makes his money. We used to have a saying in the car and motorcycle business - "Our dealership's payroll walks in and out of here on two feet." - Meaning that it was the customer who paid us all in the store, not the factory. If the dealer wants to foster good customer relations and get repeat business from those customer it is important to him to try and keep those customers happy, and as such to actually fight *for* the customer with the factory on any legitimate warranty claim. It stood me in good stead with my customers (and the factory, in the form of good CSI - Customer Service Index - scores, meaning few customer complaints) for years, and still does today in our car stores.
But again this all depends on the dealer and his attitude, but also on the customer and his attitude. It is why I always say around this board that one should try and find a good dealer, get to know him, and work *with* him... do as much business there as possible, tell him your concerns when you have them, but don't rant and rave and demand all sorts of things. Be logical and direct, and most of all honest, and expect the same from him. It is amazing how well this works if both parties have the proper mindset.
Problem is, of course, there are crappy dealers, to be sure... But there are also crappy customers. I know it's often hard, when your pride and joy bike (that you paid a lot of money for) suddenly breaks down, and you are ticked off and frustrated... But all too often a customer comes in carrying this mental baggage with him, and a chip on his shoulder, and it simply starts the whole process off on the wrong foot, and once that happens it is hard for either side to recover the ball.
Got a warranty problem? Go into the *good* dealer you have picked out, be calm, cool, concise, and business-like and describe the issue, and work with him to get it resolved. Most dealers are just like you, and actually want to find a "win-win" scenario whenever there is a problem.
So, regarding the Staintune and warranty... IMHO, it is up to you, the dealer you do business with, and what kind of relationship the two of you have... (and sometimes the laws in your state, too, that bind the factories pretty tight in some).
Hope this helps!
Dallara
I have the Stainture cat. elim. and muffler can on my '04 r1150r...4,000+ miles and no problems whatsoever. I don't know that I could say I've seen a noticeable incresae in power but for the aforementioned weight savings and heat reduction, I believe the $$$ spent on the Staintune were well spent. That being said, it was an expensive proposition...and if I didn't have the disposal $$$ it would be no problem living with the stock system.
Also, in my opinion is that the Staintune pieces are of very good quality.
Also, in my opinion is that the Staintune pieces are of very good quality.
2003 R1150RT
2006 Ducati Multistrada 1000S DS
2004 R1150R - my 1st BMW bike
2006 Ducati Multistrada 1000S DS
2004 R1150R - my 1st BMW bike
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Pat
- Honorary Lifer
- Posts: 990
- Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:40 pm
- Location: The Central Valley of California, Stockton
If I had to do it all over again, I would EASILY go with the Staintune collector. It's a very handsome addition to the bike, and more closely resembles the "box" design of the factory CAT' converter. I was led to believe that the timing of the intake & exhaust valves are better served by the "expansion chamber" effect of the box (for lack of a better way to explain it).
If you go into this with no expectations of power gains, you will be surprisingly happy with the resulting performance. DON'T expect anything dramatic, save for the heat reduction at both your transmission and little ankles......
As an added bonus,
if you should ever decide to go with an after-market can...... the Staintune on my buddy's Roadster afforded his can a lower/deeper/sexier tone than mine with a Remus "race" Y-pipe.
If you go into this with no expectations of power gains, you will be surprisingly happy with the resulting performance. DON'T expect anything dramatic, save for the heat reduction at both your transmission and little ankles......
As an added bonus,
if you should ever decide to go with an after-market can...... the Staintune on my buddy's Roadster afforded his can a lower/deeper/sexier tone than mine with a Remus "race" Y-pipe.
Member #31
staintune
Dallara - as usual - lots of good information. I too question the warranty issue. Of course, I don't have the money, so it's a moot point. When it's our of warranty, it will also be paid off and maybe then. . .
'02 in black - the real BMW color! (Now gone to a new home)
Vann - Lifer No. 295
Vann - Lifer No. 295
Speaking of which...anyone ever deal with this lot?
http://www.rlmotorcycles.com/home/Acces ... intune.htm
Staintune price isn't too shabby.
http://www.rlmotorcycles.com/home/Acces ... intune.htm
Staintune price isn't too shabby.
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Guest
QSIMDO wrote:Speaking of which...anyone ever deal with this lot?
http://www.rlmotorcycles.com/home/Acces ... intune.htm
Staintune price isn't too shabby.
This is the place where I purchased my Staintunes...1st rate, no problems...I'd buy from them again
Didn't realize I wasn't signed in....Anonymous wrote:QSIMDO wrote:Speaking of which...anyone ever deal with this lot?
http://www.rlmotorcycles.com/home/Acces ... intune.htm
Staintune price isn't too shabby.
This is the place where I purchased my Staintunes...1st rate, no problems...I'd buy from them again
2003 R1150RT
2006 Ducati Multistrada 1000S DS
2004 R1150R - my 1st BMW bike
2006 Ducati Multistrada 1000S DS
2004 R1150R - my 1st BMW bike
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dallara
Hey, QSIMDO...
Hey, QSIMDO...
I'm with Markfly. Though I didn't get my Staintune from R&L, I did get my Sargent saddles from them. You won't find a nicer, more customer oriented, great service, etc. outfit on the 'net. Richard (the owner) there spoke to me a couple of times on the phone, kept me updated on the order all along the way (he was having to wait on the front section for a few days) and shipped it out exactly when he said he would to make sure I had it time for a trip I was going on. Even called me back a couple of weeks later to see how I liked the Sargent's.
Really nice guy, really good service, and really reasonable prices.
Hope this helps!
Cheers!
Dallara
I'm with Markfly. Though I didn't get my Staintune from R&L, I did get my Sargent saddles from them. You won't find a nicer, more customer oriented, great service, etc. outfit on the 'net. Richard (the owner) there spoke to me a couple of times on the phone, kept me updated on the order all along the way (he was having to wait on the front section for a few days) and shipped it out exactly when he said he would to make sure I had it time for a trip I was going on. Even called me back a couple of weeks later to see how I liked the Sargent's.
Really nice guy, really good service, and really reasonable prices.
Hope this helps!
Cheers!
Dallara
Last edited by dallara on Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:23 am, edited 5 times in total.
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silver
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gearhead
I second that, after reading all the great posts/info. I am also interested in what the installation procedure is. I have heard its quick. Anyone have the details, Dallara, Pat, anyone!
Much appreciated!
Much appreciated!
silver wrote:It looks like I am gonna take the plunge and get the collector box. Can anyone shed some light on the install. Is it easy? Tools needed? I assume that the side stand can be used to perform the install? I am a rookie mechanic after all!
Thanks
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dallara
It's easy...
Installing the Staintune collector box is *EASY*!
If you can change your oil or swap spark plugs you will have no problem installing the Staintune.
In fact, if I recall correctly, the entire install is done with the bike actually on the centerstand, even though tow of the mounting bolts for the catalytic converter/Staintune are on the centerstand bracket. They are just mounts for the cat/Staintune, and don't support the bike in any way.
Have fun, and enjoy!
Cheers!
Dallara
If you can change your oil or swap spark plugs you will have no problem installing the Staintune.
In fact, if I recall correctly, the entire install is done with the bike actually on the centerstand, even though tow of the mounting bolts for the catalytic converter/Staintune are on the centerstand bracket. They are just mounts for the cat/Staintune, and don't support the bike in any way.
Have fun, and enjoy!
Cheers!
Dallara
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gearhead
Re: It's easy...
Dallara wrote:Installing the Staintune collector box is *EASY*!
If you can change your oil or swap spark plugs you will have no problem installing the Staintune.
In fact, if I recall correctly, the entire install is done with the bike actually on the centerstand, even though tow of the mounting bolts for the catalytic converter/Staintune are on the centerstand bracket. They are just mounts for the cat/Staintune, and don't support the bike in any way.
Have fun, and enjoy!
Cheers!
Dallara
Dallara, I was under the impression that the center stand mounted to the new collector!? If thats not the case, should be slick!