Clutch Spline Failures

[gelbe Kulter]

I have a friend who missed a great deal of last season because his R1100S had a spline failure on the engine output shaft. The new dealership did not yet have the tools. When they fixed it, he rode it for less than two weeks and the transmission input splines went, too. BMW gave him a new transmission. The bike was still under warranty with under 30k miles on it.

[peterbulgar]

This is a very interesting topic that I've been following on this and other forums (r1150r, ibmwr, advrider) for some time. The explanation that makes the most sense is the theory that imperfections in the clutch disk, combined with a marginal design, can cause the clutch plate to hang up on the input shaft thereby creating excessive wear. Or, that a slight misalignment of the clutch bell housing and the transmission could cause the same problem.

Now, does anyone know if there has been a change in this critical area in the new 1200 series? Has BMW added a pivot bearing or made any other significant change that would eliminate this potential problem?
peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA

[QSIMDO]

Strictly playing "devil's advocate" here so no dog piles on the old man, ok? Unless you're a young woman.....

Anyway, how many of these claims do you imagine can be dismissed as purely anecdotal..... and then how many down to hoonin' about/ham fisted riding.... and then how many to exceeding GVWR (RT's and such) combined with any/all of the above?

We all know the motorcycle industry is completely immune to supposition, exaggeration, folk lore and urban legend but one, two or even thirty examples do not a trend make.

Remember it only takes one turd to empty a pool.

[fallingpines]

As mentioned, this is not the first time that BMW has had an an engineering or metallurgy problem. Ever hear of 'butterheads'? Back in the mid 60's to the end of the slash 2 era, BMW R60's were built with heads cast from a bad alloy that tended to move in use over time, resulting in receeding valves, spark plugs loosening and threaded studs slowly pulling out. They have never been quick to identify and solve a mistake.

[MikeCam]

Here is a good technique for those who wish to 'know' more...

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/s ... w/1#UNREAD

[peterbulgar]

QSIMDO casts a skeptical eye on the reports of clutch spline failures and hints that the explanation may be a combination of exaggerated numbers and user error. He says he's speaking as a devil's advocate, but he brings up points that should be addressed:
1) Anecdotal reports, exaggerated numbers: This discussion has been ongoing over several Internet forums, and there is probably some overlap, but I haven't noticed it. I have read very few reports that start off, "My friends buddy said that he heard of a guy whose splines went at 20K miles..." The vast majority of the reports have been of failures that happened to the writer's own bike. I doubt that these correspondents are lying.
2) Hard riding: I'm sure there are a few BMW owners who ride their Roadsters or RTs like a 21-year-old on a Honda 600 (Hi, Pat!), but I suspect that they are a distinct minority. From the tone of the posts by those who have suffered a spline failure the riders seem to be typical BMW riders - mature, thoughtful, and mechanically sensitive.
3) Overloading: One of the selling points of BMW is that they have a high GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). Before a recent two-up camping trip with my daughter I weighed everything that was going on the bike; ourselves with full gear, the loaded panniers, loaded tank bag, all the camping stuff. When I got the bike I weighed the windscreen, luggage rack, and system case mounts. (Yes, I am obsessive - why do you ask?) I added everything up and we were still well below the GVWR. Both of us are of average size. I'm not saying that it's impossible to overload a BMW, but I am saying that you'd have to have a couple of big riders and be carrying some dense and heavy luggage - there just isn't enough room on the bike to overload it easily.

The most spectacular driveline failure that has been reported was the one that Jim Owen had on the penultimate day of the 2005 Iron Butt Rally, which he was leading at the time. (Yes, this is an anecdotal report, but it has been well documented.) Iron Butt riders spend a lot of money up front just for the entry fee, and then spend thousands more outfitting their bikes for the rally. They make sure the bikes are in as good mechanical shape as possible before the rally starts because they have invested a lot to finish. They do carry a lot of gear, but most of it is lightweight electronic stuff. They carry extra fuel, but they are limited to a total (including the bike's tank) of 11 gallons or so. Very few ride two-up. In short the bikes are not likely to be overloaded. They ride at mostly legal freeway speeds (tickets cost time) on the straightest and most direct roads they can find to meet their goals for points. These should be easy miles as far as the machine is concerned - in fact the rally is much harder on the riders than it is on the bikes.

Since many of the reported failures have occurred on bikes that were under warranty, BMW had to eat the entire cost of the repair. Most of those repairs included replacing the entire transmission, which was shipped back to BMW for analysis. BMW has to have a very good idea of how many failures have occurred and what is causing the problem. If it were truly a very small number of failures over a very large number of bikes over many years, I have to think that BMW would have made a statement to that effect. The silence of the company on this matter fuels speculation, rumor, unease, and concern even among the vast majority of us who will never have such a problem.
peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA

[QSIMDO]

I appreciate your reponse as this '04 1150R is my first exposure to BMW and I'm not familiar with all the foibles of the marque.

And I'm sure there is much truth in the fact that bikes have failed and I just flat haven't heard about it. Heck I owned a VFR750 and never knew they had electrical problems but I sure found out that Ducati can't buy a decent regulator/rectifier having had 2 blow out on 2 different bikes.

LOVE the sound of Ducati but another will not darken my garage again.

However, to the extent this particular spline breakage problem has been discussed and the amount of money people put out for the machines, you'd expect the echos of protest to resound off every wall and the NHTSA to start a fuss, eh?

(And if someone would point out the offending component on Max's BMW parts fiche I'd truly appreciate it)

I mean, there must be someone, say, an attorney who owns a BMW with a spline failure and a high sense of righteous indignation who'd drag BMW screaming and kicking to a class settlement, no?

(And for a fix I'd bore the shaft the length of the splines as I did the axles on a friends 70HP garden tractor puller.
Works a treat for keeping those splines intact. )

[Martyn]

Strictly playing "devil's advocate" here so no dog piles on the old man, ok? Unless you're a young woman.....

Anyway, how many of these claims do you imagine can be dismissed as purely anecdotal..... and then how many down to hoonin' about/ham fisted riding.... and then how many to exceeding GVWR (RT's and such) combined with any/all of the above?

We all know the motorcycle industry is completely immune to supposition, exaggeration, folk lore and urban legend but one, two or even thirty examples do not a trend make.

Remember it only takes one turd to empty a pool.

I have seen the anecdotal ecvidence laid out on the workshop floor !!
Ironically, in 29 years of riding police BMW's - hard - I've never had this problem, but my own R1150RT that I ride a lot gentler failed at just under 22,000 miles.
My dealer has done some 7 or 8 now, & keeps all the parts on the shelf, which I think speaks volumes

[peterbulgar]

I sent an e-mail to BMW Motorrad in which I outlined the reports of clutch spline problems as have been described on various Internet forums. I asked if BMW had an official response to the reports of failures, if there was a common cause in those failures, if a significant number of machines had been affected, and if any design changes had been made to this area in the R1200 series. I received the following:

"We are aware of the concerns being expressed through various websites. However, BMW is unaware of any cases which have been confirmed as a warrantable repair (a result of a defect in materials or workmanship). To date, we have found the vast majority of these complaints to be attributed to normal wear or external influence, such as misuse or neglect. However, we are still investigating this matter. We would strongly recommend you stay in contact with the service team at your BMW Retailer for further updates."

So, there it is straight from the company. I wouldn't have been surprised if they hadn't replied at all, but in less than a day I received a polite if somewhat circumspect response. Note the following:
1) They define "warrantable repair" as a defect in materials or workmanship, but say nothing about inadequate design. From first hand information on this list we know that BMW has repaired under warranty at least some such failures. Perhaps they are assuming misuse and filing the cost under "maintaining good customer relations".
2) I'm intrigued by the suggestion of "misuse or neglect". Since BMW does not have a service interval for maintaining the input shaft spline/clutch plate interface, it would seem hard to define just what was neglected.
3) I'm encouraged that they say they are investigating the matter. I'll harass my dealer every now and then to see if he's heard anything more from BMW.

At this point I'm feeling pretty good about my decision to get an extended warranty, although I'll still be steamed if I have a problem someplace in British Columbia halfway through a three-week trip. For those of you who have the normal BMW warranty, I suggest riding the bike as much as you can so that you have at least 30K miles at the end of three years. The early failures seem to be clustered in the 20-30K range.

(I'm going to post a copy of this on the bmwsporttouring site as well.)
peter '73 R75/5 (out of warranty), '04 R1150RA

[boxermania]

QSIMDO, Martyn and peterbulgar......I comend you on your positions and information.....this is how issues like this come to light.

peter, BMW and all the OEM's for that matter, when it comes to warranty on their products always play the abuse/lack of maintenance tune, very few will own up to a problem....bad publicity.

I'm sure you have heard BMW's position on surging, ABS problems and a miriad of other little anoying ailments.......

I would have far more respect for the company if they said "it appears that there might be a problem with input shafts, we are reviewing the information and working on a resolution. If you have experienced a problem, please contact your dealer for repairs......"

But that's just me............