Now I know why people call them P i Gs... :-/

[Apostle]

Hi Guys,

It's not completely R related (but still, because I was riding my R1150R), but I decided to share my experience with you anyway...

Yesterday evening I and my buddy were cruising together on a 3 line hwy. We were doing about 70 in 60 miles zone (the hwy was almost empty, so there were no danger to anyone). My buddy was riding ahead. I rode after him. At some point I saw in the mirror that there are cop behind me (quite far distance), so I started blinking with my front light hoping that my buddy can see signal in his mirror and drop the speed. But apparently he wasn't looking back and kept accelerating. So, I dropped my speed to 60 and cop passed me and followed my buddy (note: the cop did not stop me. Instead he pursued after my friend). He followed him for some time without flashing lights... then he turned lights on and pull him over to the 3rd right bus stop line. At that time I was far behind them, so technically I could just change my line to the 1st left line and keep going. But I am not a rat to leave my buddy in trouble alone. (we didn't have an agreement what one of us must do if the second one pulled over while we riding together). So, I drove to the place cop stopped and parked next to my buddy's bike. I did it voluntarily.

To make next long 15 min. short I just tell that cop gave tickets to him and to me. From my opinion that cop never heard about word called h o n o r (that is why I chose such subject name for that topic).

Now I have a question... May be it is a stupid one. I'm a foreigner, so I didn't know all those small details which most of you, guys know by default. The cop was from State Patrol. And I heard once (or may be read somewhere) that when SP cop approach the person he pulled over, he must wear his complete uniform including his round hat. I heard that once a ticket was dismissed just because such cop didn't wear his hat. And this is exactly what happened in my case. Do you think that story about uniform hat is a bsh..t or that can be a truth?

Kind Regards,
Apostle

P.S. I do not want to sound as every cop is a pig. I met many good guys who wear uniform and who were not greedy and who were not blindly followed the rules and use the power they got. So, I apologize in advance for those (still… unfortunately few) who grew up in families where honor values more than money.

[Boxer]

Your buddy should check his rear view mirror more often.

[xaque]

Not sure why he would give you a ticket as well... unless he had witnessed BOTH of you speeding.

He may have figured to go after your friend because you slowed down (that's all the speed enforcement is really supposed to do, slow people down.) and he didn't. When you pulled up he may have figured you "volunteered" yourself for the ticket as well.

As far as the hat... You and your buddy were speeding, you admit that. You were caught (well, your buddy was) fair and square.

The fairness of your ticket aside, take your perverbial medicine and slow down (or teach your buddy to check his mirrors more often) next time. Don't try to fight it because he wasn't wearing a hat.

$0.02

-Xaque-

[ErikU]

There is no truth to the hat thing.

[toner87]

There's a lot to your story we don't know about... How was your attitude towards the cop. Your friend's attitude? You refer to cops as "pigs" in your posting. Did that attitude come across in your interaction with the LEO? Personally, I probably would have driven on and waited down the road. The last thing you want to do is make a cop nervous about some second rider coming in to aid his buddy. It really wasn't your business. Just my HO.
T.

[Apostle]

There's a lot to your story we don't know about... How was your attitude towards the cop. Your friend's attitude? You refer to cops as "pigs" in your posting. Did that attitude come across in your interaction with the LEO? Personally, I probably would have driven on and waited down the road. The last thing you want to do is make a cop nervous about some second rider coming in to aid his buddy. It really wasn't your business. Just my HO.
T.

We both were quiet and friendly... I know that it never helps to argue or something with cop. There was no stress. Nothing. Attitude was very polite and respectful (I specially stopped in front of police car, so do not make the guy nervous in case if I stop behind him and just walk to my buddy)...

BTW... Guys, I wonder how he measures our speed. I believe it was based on police car speedometer. (I didn't want to make cop unhappy, so I didn't ask this question. Should I?) And in case if it was radar, then how the heck he can measure my speed (when initially he was driving behind me.... otherwise why he gave me a ticket later?!), then pass me and start measuring the speed of my buddy? (That means his radar must be able "remember" two indication which are separated in a time). I believe those radars do not work this way. May be I'm wrong...

'04 Silver R1150RA
Apostle

[ErikU]

They radar can be tied into the speedometer so that they can be following you and get you with radar,.. they don't need to be sitting still.

I don't think it's out of line at all to politely ask what he used, and ask to see it (your top speed should still be showing).

[xaque]

Yes, modern radar units in the cruiser can be linked to the vehicle's speed. While the cruiser is moving they can measure the speed of both a vehicle it is following AND a vehicle that is on-coming.

On top of that, police officer can incorporate other methods to obtain speed (at least from where I'm from)

1: Pacing... essentialy the officer follows a car, maintaining the same distance apart, and uses the cruisers calibrated speedometer

2: Estimation... In the police academies around me, officers are trained to estimate a vehicle's speed to an error of +/- 5mph or so.

I'm am mearly speculating, but it sounds like this happened:

The officer saw the two of you riding at a high rate of speed together. He pulled up behind you, you slowed down but your friend continued to speed. The officer decides to ticket your friend. When you pulled up, he decided to cite both of you for the speeding that he whitnessed both of you commiting.

If he were following you, he would have had all three techniques for determining your speed at his/her disposal.

-Xaque-

[popgazer]

Apostle,
First of all go for it and fight it! Give it a shot, you never know.

...on a 3 line hwy.

You are not supposed to stop on the highway, unless for emergency or when stopped by the an officer.
That would have been enough to give you a ticket!
Read the ticket carefully. You may have received a non-moving violation, which is not bad! You don't get points on your driver license. Check the violation code and see what it means.
If he used a radar or lidar he would have written the number of the device on the ticket.
Check what is the reason for giving you a citation.

If you were travelling in a different county than your residence, go for a trial and ask for the case to be moved to your city. Chances, the cop won't show up the day of the trial.

Good luck.

[mcooperstein]

If you were travelling in a different county than your residence, go for a trial and ask for the case to be moved to your city. Chances, the cop won't show up the day of the trial..

What universe do you live in? "..ask for the case to be moved to your city?" What impetus would they have for complying with such a request? The responsibility to appear in court is put on the person who has the citation. The court doesn't have to accomodate your schedule, you have to accomode theirs!

Mark

[popgazer]

Some readings for you:

NOLO Website

http://www.ticketassassin.com/visorguide.html

http://www.worldlawdirect.com/article/9 ... icket.html

http://www.motorists.com/issues/tickets ... egies.html

http://www.speedtrap.org/ticket/ticket_ ... egies.html

[Apostle]

Apostle,
First of all go for it and fight it! Give it a shot, you never know.

...on a 3 line hwy.

You are not supposed to stop on the highway, unless for emergency or when stopped by the an officer. That would have been enough to give you a ticket!

I believe I didn't explain everything correctly. THe highway has 2 lines (left one was a usuall line and the right one is a dimond one... we were driving in a dimond one). The 3rd line I mentioned was a short "pocket" line for a bus. That was the line where police car stop my buddy. This is where I stopped myself. Not sure if it is relevant.. Just wanted to make it clear.

BTW... Thanks for your advise, Popgazer!

I've read all those links you sent in your latest post bellow and just verified again my ticket. Now I see that the way police officer measured my speed is PACE (there are 3 options available on the ticket: SMD, PACE, AIRCRAFT. In my case cop checked option PACE). Also, there is no radar number on the ticket. I guess he just measured our speed based on the speedometer.

This is my 2nd ticket during last 4 years. The first one I got was at the end of 2002 (I got a ticket for 6 miles over speed limit. The guy just was making his quota). I was able to dismiss that ticket by hiring the lawyer. I have no problem to pay this new ticket fee, but I hate what will happen with my insurance bill after that. I believe this time I'm going to try "Contested Hearing" and fight DMV record. I know my buddy is going to do the same.

What will be the best strategy?

A) If I and my friend, both will write in our contest explanation documents the full story and both will provide identical story with referencing to each other's ticket numbers (police car behind me -> police car passed me and started chasing my friend -> my friend and police car stopped -> I arrived to the stop point later)

_OR_

B) If we make our stories independent (my friend will write everything starting the point when he saw the police blinking lights car behind him and stopped. Then he saw me driving to his direction and stopping later...
And I will start my story from the point when I stopped to check my friend and police officer gave me a ticket also, so I will skip the part when I saw the cop behind me and then passing me).

What is your opinion?

[JCsman]

[quote="Apostle]

What will be the best strategy?

A) If I and my friend, both will write in our contest explanation documents the full story and both will provide identical story with referencing to each other's ticket numbers (police car behind me -> police car passed me and started chasing my friend -> my friend and police car stopped -> I arrived to the stop point later)
[/quote]

Am I reading this correctly. Is your defense that, since the police officer passed you and let you go, he shouldn't have ticketed you when you pulled over? I come from a family with many LEO's and/or ties to traffic enforcement. If the officer legitimately paced you at 15 over, it would be danged few who would NOT ticket you.

I really don't think either of your options would work, but it's a (relatively) free country.

But - again if I read this correctly - how's your buddy going to feel about the idea of you writing .....
I was riding along with my pal when:
1 I saw the office behind me,
2 I dropped to the legal limit (not sure how you'll phrase this one! But by saying you were riding along with your friend and he maintained his speed then was nailed for speeding....)
3 My buddy kept up his speed and pulled away
4 the cop passed me, nailed my bud
5 I pulled over and was ticketed too.

Now, frankly, if your write up goes ANYTHING like that, you have confessed to your own speeding and witnessed to your friend's speeding.

FWIW I don't think that acting like the incidents are unrelated will wash either.

I think this one may fall under an educational experience.

[popgazer]

What will be the best strategy?

It depends. In California, if you haven't had a ticket within the past 18 months and your speed did not exceed 25mph above the posted limit, you automatically get traffic school, which avoids points on your license, insurance hike etc.
I don't know the rules in WA. I am assuming there's something similar.

if paying the ticket is not too much of a burden on your finances, and your time is worth more, pay the ticket do traffic school and save yourself time and stress.
I know this seems contrary to what I said above, but you have to consider all the factors.

Otherwise, first request speed survey for the area where you were caught. If you were within the 85th pencentile a judge "may" let you go!
Also request to appear in court for trial, this will give you a chance that the cop is too busy to show up, and your case will likely to be dismissed. Don't argue the case if the cop is not present, just say "Your honor, I move to dismiss the case."
If the cop shows up, you can still change your plea to "No Contest" and ask the judge for traffic school, which means you would have invested the time going there etc.
Like I said, it depends if you think your time is worth it or not!

[Apostle]

This is just a short update from a happy Apostle...

Today (almost 3 months later since I decided to go and fight this ticket), I finally got an update from the court. The news are that they studied and verified what I wrote in my statement contesting that infraction (instead going to court I chose a Contested Hearing by Mail, as being foreigner I wasn’t sure about my English) and compared it with what Mr. State Patrol Officer wrote. Surprisingly for the Officer, judge decided that in that particular case Miss Justice must be on my side. The bottom line is that I won this contested hearing and all penalties are dismissed. There will be no record in my file and anything else! I'm so glad that this time I fought this ticket myself and didn't use a lawyer who would charge me $250 ~ $350. I better spend this money to get a new helmet for my girlfriend! :-)

Thanks a lot to everyone who supported me here (especially to Popgazer, who sent me the links I used to prepare my statement)!
And thanks to everyone who took State Patrol Officer's side also. I always appreciate a good discussion and a different point of view.

[popgazer]

Ssssss'weeet
Congrats. I had one thrown out a few months ago, and it sure feels good!

[scottybooj]

no offense to LEOs but you gotta love how quite a few spend their days as traffic monitors. you get into a job to defend the public, and yes, the law, and you just write ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

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after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

after ticket

[MattPie]

The bottom line is that I won this contested hearing and all penalties are dismissed. There will be no record in my file and anything else! .

Did they do the same for your friend? From the way I read your original story, it sounded like you slowed down long before the LEO was close to you. I thought that giving you a ticket was iffy in that case since the officer didn't directly observe you riding over the speed limit.