tips for learning to ride 2 up?

Post by **Dr. Strangelove** » Sat May 13, 2006 1:29 pm

When I took the MSF the instructor advised not to even think about riding 2 up until you have 1000 miles on the bike or 6 months of riding, whichever comes later.

Well, that time is coming--got over 3k since I've owned her (8500 total) and have been riding her since 12/05.
I am ~~ 165 # almost 5'8" and my wife is about 110 and 5'5". We have ridden 2 up on our old Vespa and have ridden a lot on a Peugeot tandem bicycle. Point is, I know how much that weight on the back can change the dynamics of balance--esp at a standstill-- and steering. One trick we learned was for her to ride on the rear as if she were balancing "no hands."
The R is about 250# heavier than the Vespa and I suppose it is more of a challenge, but was hoping those who've been there might have a few tips to get into 2 up.
TIA

John

chris · Post by **chris** » Sat May 13, 2006 1:51 pm

Hi John,
If you've ridden together on other machines then you're already both experienced and should have no problems. I took a friend to collect his new F650GS last night. My first pillion passenger in 6 years, so I was a little apprehensive only having had this bike a few weeks but I hardly even noticed he was there. The extra weight didn't seem to alter the handing and if anything the bike felt even more stable both in the twisties and in rush hour traffic at walking pace and filtering through gaps. Must be the telelever working. I'd say go for it, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

tor1150r · Post by **tor1150r** » Sat May 13, 2006 2:21 pm

Hi John,
Ditto as above. You've already done the 2-up thing on a two-wheeler, so rules still apply. What I did after getting my license was to rack up 1000-1500 miles on my own. I then took my wife to a large vacant parking lot, riding 2-up. We spent a good 45 mins (on 2 occasions) doing some basic stuff like slow turns, starting, stopping, getting leaned over a little more each turn. I also practiced some quick stops and some swerves to get an idea of the handling with added weight.

Once you are on the road you will encounter declines and inclines. Take these cautiously until you get the feel of the weight, brakes and acceleration dynamics. Then you can experiment with the fun stuff, like turning the bike around at a dead end on a graded, gravel road! (I'm still working on that one!!)

2-up is a pleasure on these bikes

Post by **DJ Downunder** » Sat May 13, 2006 2:36 pm

I have a little tip for you....when you are stopped...and you normally tip the bike ever so slightly to put one foot down...DON'T DO THAT.

The extra weight will make the bike want to fall over..and that could be embarrassing.

Also when stopping on a slightly uneven surface...make sure it's the higher side foot that you touch down...it's amazing how much that extra weight makes.

Good luck...and I say go for it...I do a lot of two up on mine...just take it easy and work on smooth gear changes.

DJ

Post by **Dr. Strangelove** » Sat May 13, 2006 3:20 pm

Thanks for all the encouragement.

DJ, question please.
>>I have a little tip for you....when you are stopped...and you normally tip the bike ever so slightly to put one foot down...DON'T DO THAT<<

Yeah, I remember on the peugeot tandem that when stopped, I would slide off the seat and straddle the top tube, rather than just putting a foot out. When Mary--my wife-- would balance "no hands" style her weight would not be a factor, though if anyone else was back there--they didn't do the balancing act so well and there was some wrestling to be done with the handlebars at a stop especially.
So...when stopped, how do you balance yourself ?

Post by **DJ Downunder** » Sat May 13, 2006 4:03 pm

So...when stopped, how do you balance yourself ?

If you can't touch both feet down you may have a slight problem...

You can still keep the bike straight and slide yourself down on one side to touch a foot down.

Just don't lean the bike any more than you need to...

DJ

ErikU · Post by **ErikU** » Sat May 13, 2006 4:11 pm

I was actually surprised how great my bike did two up. I used to have an early 80's Kawasaki, and there was a big difference in handling with a passenger... I didn't like it much.

I took my dad for my first two up ride on the r, and was shocked.. I could hardly tell he was there!

A couple tips:

- Dial in the pre-load adjuster so the bike doesn't squat much when your passenger hops on.

- Check the tire air pressure as suggested in the book for two up.

- Plan your stops and your footing... it can get very heavy when stopped especially with any kind of incline to the side.

Have fun!

chris · Post by **chris** » Sat May 13, 2006 4:29 pm

Accelerate slowly and smoothly...you're used to just how much torque the motor is producing, your pillion rider isn't and doesn't have the bars to hang onto. If you can't feel the difference with her on there you won't notice if she flips over the back!

I also find that holding the revs a little longer than normal before a gear change lets the momentum even out so you avoid helmet banging as much as possible.
Have fun!

Post by **12bar1** » Sat May 13, 2006 6:25 pm

If you can ride a tandem two up on a motorcycle should be pretty easy. I soon learned the person up front may be the captain but the one in back is the rear admrial on a tandem.

Paul Mihalka · Post by **Paul Mihalka** » Sun May 14, 2006 5:59 am

A simple trick when riding two-up: tell the co-rider to look over your left shoulder when in a left turn and look over your right shoulder when in a right turn. That positions them exactly where you want them.

Post by **Dr. Strangelove** » Sun May 14, 2006 9:44 am

Thanks--good thread and lots of helpful tips

>the one in back is the rear admrial on a tandem.<
so true...that's why I tell them to ride as if they were riding a regular bicycle with no hands. It balances them well on the back and they will not try to steer.

John

CWH · Post by **CWH** » Sun May 14, 2006 10:26 am

If, as others have suggested, you set the pre-load and tyres for two-up riding after a few miles you will quickly adjust to the added weight. Note it will have a more noticeable affect on braking distance than acceleration. Additional fork dive not an issue on an R which is what I find causes most upset on a conventional bike due to the extra weight of the passenger.

I always tell passengers to "pretend they are a sack of potatoes or cement". Very important to only ride at the speed with which the passenger is comfortable as this prevents them fighting the lean angle when cornering. In my experience they will soon want to go faster than you do!

Biggest danger is whilst they get on or off the bike so ensure that you agree on a clear signal that you must give to the passenger before they do either. Give clear instructions to passengers that they are not to try and "help" keep the bike upright when stopped.

Top tip is to invest in a pair of "love handles" which are basically a webbing belt with a handle on each side. My wife loves them. This has a number of benefits:
a. Gives the passenger more confidence as they are holding directly on to you.
b. Ensures they remain sat correctly on the bike as their body will be aligned with you own and therefore make handling predictable.
c. Prevents them disappearing off the back during acceleration and stops helmets banging together even during hard braking.

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Sun May 14, 2006 5:52 pm

i would recommend doing some simple parking lot drills at first to get you both aclimated to the bike.
Since you have dome some doubleing up before it may not be too big fo a deal for you.

I ditto the sack of potatoes idea. They need to lean with the bike not against it.

just take it easy and give yourself a bit more braking distance and you should be fine.

ken k

Post by **switz** » Tue May 16, 2006 9:05 pm

Tie a 50 pound bag of grass seed to the back and try some slow riding in a parking lot. Then add another bag of seed. When training is done, you have grass seed for the yard. You could also use fertilizer for the same effect.

Post by **DJ Downunder** » Wed May 17, 2006 3:29 am

You could also use fertilizer for the same effect.

Great idea..(really)....but I think I'll pass..

DJ

leno · Post by **leno** » Wed May 17, 2006 4:49 am

You will be fine the only thing I have noted is with the strong engine breaking it can be hard to be smooth. You can get the old helmet banging. Coming off the gas gentely is critical to a smooth ride. Also don't change gear at too slow a speed so the engine does not bog down.

Oilhead · Post by **Oilhead** » Wed May 17, 2006 7:12 am

I always felt that heavier the bike, the easier it was to carry a passenger. I used to have a GL1200I and I could barely tell that I had a passenger. On the lighter bikes, it felt dramatically different to carry a passenger. You should be fine with the Roadster. It's a pretty heavy bike and very well balanced.

Post by **dwayne** » Wed May 17, 2006 7:52 am

DJ Downunder wrote:...just take it easy and work on smooth gear changes.

DJ

This is my fear given how touchy the cluch is, banging helmets like drums. Never a good confidence builder.

chris · Post by **chris** » Wed May 17, 2006 9:12 am

dwayne wrote:
DJ Downunder wrote:...just take it easy and work on smooth gear changes.

DJ
This is my fear given how touchy the cluch is, banging helmets like drums. Never a good confidence builder.

Hold the revs a bit longer before you change up to get rid of the momentum. Gives your passenger time to catch up with the bike. Go for it, you'll work out your own system and I'm sure your passenger will let you know if it's all going pear shaped back there!

rockster.ch · Post by **rockster.ch** » Wed May 17, 2006 9:14 am

it's a great bike for pillion bar the helmet-conkers

my wife still does not realises that engine braking can be that strong!

FWIW I followed a ZX10R ridden by what I can only describe as a real short-arse once.

He stopped on a sheer-left bend on a steep hill. He tried to touch down with his downhill foot.

Crash.

The bike was only 300km old. He swore a lot. I helped him pick the bike up. He f--ked off without as much as a thank you.

Muppet was fully leathered-up with nice white socks and trainers on. And a pink Nike backpack....