Beemer and Harley, contrast

[tor1150r]

Well I've never been on a Harley, let alone owned on. The R is my second bike in under 4 years of riding so my 2 cents worth may not be that credible.

I bought my bike new in 2004. I have almost 54k km on it. It burned oil until around 20-25k kms. Now it burns virtually nothing - less than 1 liter every 10k kms (not 1k kms).

I followed the mfg's suggested break-in process and keep to the suggested service intervals at least while under warranty.

I was lucky enough to be in the 2% who've had the clutch/spline issue (failed thousands of kms from home. Warranty replacement and ALL out-of-town costs paid for by BMW while the bike was being repair, oh, plus a loaner for 2 days).

I also just put over 26k kms on it. It took a real beating throught the trip. I was impressed with how well it performed under not-so-normal circumstances. Oh, and it was quite comfortable to ride too!

BMW, along with Honda, Yamaha, even Bentley and Ferrari (to include other forms of motorized transportation) have issues. I did not spend months researching this bike. I bought it because it had everything I needed, a proven track record as being a durable machine, a great warranty and unique styling.

I fully expect to put well over 150k kms on this bike. I also fully expect to spend a few bucks to keep it running well. It's an investment in leisure, travelling and excitement, not in realizing a profitable return monetarily.

It has a few weird quirks. Well...so do my parents!!

I love this machine. I'll look after it. I'll continue to enjoy every mile I out on it. It has been great and I'd definitely consider another BMW product when the time comes. Quirks and all.

[dwayne]

I happen to agree. The boxer oil burning is excessive. My bike burned a full quart every 1000 miles thru 12k. At that rate, oil changes are not necessary. I also had 2 new engines in two years. I all started with odd noises and vibration coming from the engine. Every time, I would get the "thats normal, they all do that" explanation. After pushing it further, dealer would investigage and tell me the good news.. I need a new engine and I was also told that this is happening to others with the twin spark and they had 12 engines in the back with the same issue needing to be sent back to BMW. I am not sure of the exact problem and not even the dealers really knew why. They suspected something with the casting.. Anyway, I am a fan of BMW and still own one today... However, I will never own a flat twin again. It just does not make sense to me. In the BMW line, the new 4 cyl are superior in every way, in my opinion.

Dwayne, go test ride a new K12R. It will make you a beemer believer again. Its what I would have expected from BMW. I am a happy camper now thanks to my dealer making me an awesome deal and taking the RR off my hands!

Does the K12R suffer the same bad engineering....burning oil as the RR?

[dwayne]

[quote="Brownw3]...they burn oil and vibrate like crazy until about 30,000 miles and then it stops. These engines are designed to last indefinitely...[/quote]

I respect your opinion, but that is not a reasonable statement. That's BMW marketing hype IMHO.

Also, I would like to see, from a reputible site, that actually states and can verify that the cylindar walls of the BMW R1150R model years up to and including 2005 have a special hard coating, or made with a metal or other substance, that is harder and more durable then any other manufacturer. I still say it burns oil because of design, ergo, engineering. It used to be said the Mercedez made a great car....not quite true anymore, if you go by what Consumer Reports, and Lemon-Aid says.

Your prose is well thought out, but I still disagree. I will say this, every bike has issues, it is what you are williing to live with.

I like the bike, it has good ergos and I like the look and feel of everything but this oil problem. And it is this oil consumption that tells me there is a major flaw with this bike. Will my opinion change, I hope so, otherwise I am truely going to be an unhappy camper.

[Silverr]

dwayne, the k12 has not burned much at all. I dont need to top off between oil changes as it stays within the hi low range. My rr seemed to need a top off every week.

[CupOHemlock]

My K-R burns no oil.. and I mean none. My 1150 DID burn oil for the first 4k miles.. then it stopped.

Hang in there man. If that is your only problem then you are set for a great riding experience in the long term.

COH (Rich)

[Bry]

...I'd say that your bike desperatly needs a DAMNED GOOD THRASH!!!

But what makes a "Good Thrashing"? I ride 110Km's per day, mostly at speeds AROUND 140 km/hr. Isn't that thrashing? I'm not trying to make people defence about the bikes, I have not met a single person on this forum that I don't like, just spilling the beans about something that really, really annoyes me.

Thrashing as defined by my rockster is wheelstanding once or twice a day, hitting the rev limiter weekly and caning off the lights to get a smile...

140k's? *chuckles* that's like getting a extra 10 degrees on the rocking chair...


All my BM's 'cept the K1200R which hasn't used a drop in 7000K's, have used oil, and all settled down by 20,000K's... to virtually no use..

Bry

[dragonmojo]

Well, I know I'd never buy the new Yamaha R6. When you hype 18,000rpm, I expect 18,000rpm, not 17,500rpm. But credit Yamaha to honor buy-backs for that very reason.

[Beemeridian]

76

[JCsman]

...I'd say that your bike desperatly needs a DAMNED GOOD THRASH!!!

But what makes a "Good Thrashing"? I ride 110Km's per day, mostly at speeds AROUND 140 km/hr. Isn't that thrashing?

On my bike at 140KPM (about 85 mph) I'm turning right at 4,200 rpm. And no, in my opinion that is not thrashing. In fact if you typically hold that fairly steady state throttle opening you are "breaking it in" the absolutely wrong way - or so accourding to what I was told.

Thrashing involves a substantial number of runs up and down the upper reaches of the rpm scale. I began that after about 1,500 miles (I recall 600 miles was recommended to stay at 4,000 or below. Some advocate even skipping that step. Mine, after that treatment - and reaching about 8,000 or so miles dramatically reduced oil burning (NEVER a quart per 600 miles!). It's now more like 1 quart every 2,500-3,000 miles.

[Tripton]

Mine used to burn maybe a half quart between oil changes...now it doesnt burn enough to hardly notice...and there is 19900 miles on it. It gets rode HARD, with lots of miles above the 5000k mark....which is a good cruising speed if you are in the middle of nowhere.

Isnt this the wrong forum to be wrongly accusing BMW of having poor engineering, just based off of one experience with one bike?

Sell it. To someone that will enjoy it.

[wncbmw]

A quart per 1000km is excessive by most people's standards! But I would also say, it is not typical.

I helped take my old RS apart at 50,000 miles to check it out and the machining marks were still visible inside the bore. That's durablility. And I put 85K miles on it and it is still going well past 100K. You say most people don't do that kind of mileage on a bike but many BMW riders do. I fully intend to get 100K on mine.

As for hype, heck they all hype something. BMW has it's faults and quirks but I throughly like mine, the 5th one I have had.

[peterbulgar]

Isnt this the wrong forum to be wrongly accusing BMW of having poor engineering, just based off of one experience with one bike?

Quite a few people have replied that their own experience matches Dwayne's. At 35k miles my bike goes through a quart of oil every 2500-2800 miles on a long trip. It uses a bit more in commuting and shorter trips. I'd be happier if it used less than it does, but I don't worry about it. From this thread and many others like it, it seems that some bikes use oil and some don't. There may be one or two bikes out there that use excessive oil because their owners are way too gentle, but from what I've seen BMW owners ride like most motorcyclists - they use the bikes in a sporting manner and exploit the capabilities of the machine. That doesn't mean that the riders are bouncing off the rev-limiter on every ride. I doubt that BMW designed their motorcycles in such a way that extremely aggressive riding is a requirement for the well-being of the machine.

This is a forum where owners and riders relate their experiences, good and bad, with BMW R1150R motorcycles. Sometimes a random failure is wrongly blamed on bad engineering. Members of the forum will be quick to respond. More often a report of a problem prompts other members to share their own experiences, and the cumulative posts serve to point out that there is a significant problem area (hello, clutch splines), even if only a small percentage of bikes are affected. Discussion ensues, maybe enlightenment happens. That's what this forum is all about. Members may be reassured or their paranoia may be reinforced, depending on their nature.
Peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA

[Sunbeemer]

Man Dwayne, you sure got some attention here by flaming the very object of this board! And I gotta say that I felt the same way about my '02 RR for about 6 months after I bought it (used). But then I participated in an MSF Experienced Rider Course to see if I'd picked up any bad habits over the years (I had!), and I was impressed at how much better this bike handled itself compared to the several different styles of Harley, Hondas, Yamahas, and a Triumph that were also tested. I realized then that this bike was designed to save life, that it was more capable than I was, that it could do more than whatever I asked of it, with grace even! It stopped twice as quick as the Harleys and cornered without showering sparks all over the asphalt. It out-handled the V-twin Honda's because they've got too much high weight, and acted many pounds lighter than the Yamaha's because of its low weight and in-line crankshaft that you don't have to fight gyroscopic stabilization to flick over. Other participants commented, "Man that must be a light bike...how much does it weigh?" So I realized then that this bike would (and since has) saved my life because of the way it was engineered. That's worth considerably more to me than the bother of having to add a cup of oil every few weeks...
Oh, and then there's the maintenance issue; I do like being able to adjust the valves without having to disassemble half the bike. I remember the Triumph rider said,"Oh yeah, I hadn't thought of that!" Now there's a poor SOB who should have been taken aside before he bought his bike! So I appreciate where you're coming from and maybe your diatribe and this thread will help some prospective owners make a more informed decision. But when they give the important details the priority they deserve (like STAYING ALIVE= #1) then I think they'll understand why they may want to invest themselves in German engineering.

[dragonmojo]

That's worth considerably more to me than the bother of having to add a cup of oil every few weeks...

At the rate of 1 liter per 1000kms, many of us will be adding a cup of oil every few days!

[riceburner]

...I'd say that your bike desperatly needs a DAMNED GOOD THRASH!!!

But what makes a "Good Thrashing"? I ride 110Km's per day, mostly at speeds AROUND 140 km/hr. Isn't that thrashing? I'm not trying to make people defence about the bikes, I have not met a single person on this forum that I don't like, just spilling the beans about something that really, really annoyes me.

what's that in miles??

86.6 or so.


That's NOT thrashing it, that's a light tickle.

110+ mph. Daily. YKIMS.

but what you really need to do it get the engine revving hard, up to 7000 and more, regularly, and under load (ie climbing a hill, accelerating hard, full throttle openings, that sort of thing.)

[ranmar850]

My Rockster has burnt ZERO oil in 15000 km--not a drop added between changes, just a glimmer of gap showing in the top of the window-they don't all do it. I'm prone to thinking that glazing via a too-gentle run-in is the problem.

[Arjen]

Burning oil at a rate that BMW says is normal is absolutely absurd.

Wrong. So very wrong.

BMW doesn't say it's normal.

Your own words:

However what gets my goat is on the BMW site it lists i liter per 1000Km's as exceptable.

Exceptable is NOT the same as normal!

What BMW says is that there is nothing serious wrong with the engine until it consumes more than 1 liter every 1000km.

This statement from BMW just indicates how strong and reliable they think the engine is.

When other manufacturers say (dunno if they do btw) that for example 1 liter every 300km is acceptable could this mean that their engines need expansive labour when it consumes more than 1 liter every 300km???

There are usually more ways to look at numbers and data...

[dwayne]

Mine used to burn maybe a half quart between oil changes...now it doesnt burn enough to hardly notice...and there is 19900 miles on it. It gets rode HARD, with lots of miles above the 5000k mark....which is a good cruising speed if you are in the middle of nowhere.

Isnt this the wrong forum to be wrongly accusing BMW of having poor engineering, just based off of one experience with one bike?

Sell it. To someone that will enjoy it.

Yaaaa, the only problem with the 'happy' zone is the speeding tickets that can creep up

[1150929]

Dwane, your thread bothers me, for one because you are a fellow Canadian and your arguments are asinine and unnecessarily abrasive.

You start off your diatribe on negative comments people make about Harleys, without acknowledging that those people are either ignorant or just plain idiots. Most modern day Harleys ARE reliable, well engineered and modern, of course relative to what they are designed for. But you've actually said that you’ll tell people that BMW’s are problematic in that they “breakdown, are poorly engineered, and are an old tired design.”

Only because there are too many gentlemen on this site that nobody has told you to f-off...I'm have no such problem.

You may be the only motorcycle enthusiast I know of who didn’t know that BMW boxers burn oil. Is checking the oil periodically the reason why you say “I never owned a machine that demanded this much attention?” What a drama queen! The rotary engine in my car burns oil routinely and can flood easily, it’s a characteristic of the rotary design, but as an informed consumer I knew this before I bought one.

Maybe you should visit a national rally as I did and see the countless boxers that have over 80000 miles without a rebuild, before you post another diatribe.

[dwayne]

Dwane, your thread bothers me, for one because you are a fellow Canadian and your arguments are asinine and unnecessarily abrasive.

You start off your diatribe on negative comments people make about Harleys, without acknowledging that those people are either ignorant or just plain idiots. Most modern day Harleys ARE reliable, well engineered and modern, of course relative to what they are designed for. But you've actually said that you’ll tell people that BMW’s are problematic in that they “breakdown, are poorly engineered, and are an old tired design.”

Only because there are too many gentlemen on this site that nobody has told you to f-off...I'm have no such problem.

You may be the only motorcycle enthusiast I know of who didn’t know that BMW boxers burn oil. Is checking the oil periodically the reason why you say “I never owned a machine that demanded this much attention?” What a drama queen! The rotary engine in my car burns oil routinely and can flood easily, it’s a characteristic of the rotary design, but as an informed consumer I knew this before I bought one.

Maybe you should visit a national rally as I did and see the countless boxers that have over 80000 miles without a rebuild, before you post another diatribe.

Thanks for enlightning me. But next time, spell my name right.