Beemer and Harley, contrast

[jfbarron]

Way to go Rui!

So Dwayne, I am still curious to discover the reason that your bike needed to be towed to the dealer. Please enlighten us so that we can be forwarned....

[sjbmw]

No bull on the rebuild thing.

I met a guy in Vermont who travelled a over 1000 miles 2-up on an airhead built in the 1960s!

[dwayne]

Way to go Rui!

So Dwayne, I am still curious to discover the reason that your bike needed to be towed to the dealer. Please enlighten us so that we can be forwarned....

ahhhh, forgot to mention that....it was a bad relay for the Fuel Pump. I later discovered that if I tapped it, the thing would come back to life...hear the whine of the fuel pump. I let that go, cause I figured hey, if that's the only grief this bike gives me, great. Sadly, that wasn't the worst part of it.
What kind of bothers me is people like Rui who tout the mantra: If you don't have nice things to say about the bike say nothing. Well, I disagree. The point of a forum, Rui, is to share information both positive and negative. Just because you don't consider this an issue doesn't mean no one else can. As for being a gentleman, ummmm, you've cleared that up. Perhaps instead of getting defensive, perhaps take a moment to reflect on how a non BMW rider would feel about the oil consumption on these bikes. The coments I usually get are: "I thought only Harleys changed their own oil". Which is why I started the thread with the comparison.
I knew that these bikes burned oil, but at the rate that it is burning oil is causing an eye brow to be raised. I've owned lots of bikes and cars and never had a machine burn as much as this. Truth be told I can't remeber any of my bikes, cars or trucks burning oil, and if they did, not enough to notice. When I was researching the bike I came to sites like this and was advised that a little oil burning was normal, but again, not at the rate that it is burning oil. Understand this is the only issue I have with it. I'm not saying the bike is crap, what I AM saying is that the engineering with regards to the motor is suspect.

[Ozhirsty]

23000 on my '04 r. Have used 16oz in last 3000 miles.
Not to soft/not to hard break-in from new. Using Dino 20/50.
Thinking of going syn at next (24000) service.
Going to do it myself, big $$$ savings.

[DSKYZD]

Rui,

You are exactly right about people acting like gentlemen. That's what is expected of everyone. The "f-off" comment is not necessary. Disagree if that is your position, but do it with logic and civility.


DSKYZD

[dwayne]

I've often heard people joke about the problems with Harleys:"they burn oil", "they breakdown", "poorly engineered", "an old tired design" and other unflattering comments. After owning a Beemer, owning a few different brands of bike, and knowing many that own Harleys, I can offer advise to the potential Beemer owner: If you are thinking of making the Beemer plunge, you need to understand what you are getting into. Whenever you hear the anti-Harley comments, replace the Harley-Davidson name with BMW Beemer and you will have a good idea of what BMW ownership is like. Beemers do breakdown; I’ve had several bikes, all new, or very low Km’s, and the Beemer, also new, is the only bike I have ever had to have towed to a dealership. Beemer’s burn oil, though many will tell you that any reciprocating motor burns oil, burning oil at the rate of a liter per 1000Km's is alarmingly high. I, and many others that have owned or own other brands can and will tell you that having to add oil between oil changes is rare.
What I want to know is how did BMW manage to stay in the business of motorcycles as long as they have? Burning oil at a rate that BMW says is normal is absolutely absurd.

What is the point of ever changing the oil? With burning or consuming oil at the rate of a liter per 1000Km: the bike practically changes oil for you. I mean if you can get away with just changing the filter without draining the oil, you’d be far further ahead.

BMW’s are appointed well, with good ergonomics, however having to trade ergo’s for poor engineering on the part of the motor is not something I would have taken as acceptable from any other brand. I guess I’m just PO’d that I fell for the BMW hype, and hype is all it is I’m afraid. If Honda built a bike that burned oil as badly as the Beemers, they wouldn’t be in the bike business. Simply burning oil isn’t the only problem, the silly oil checking regime: here’s a novel idea: make the oil window site glass a little higher or little lower, or make it standard practice to inspect the oil level when bike is cold on the side stand or center stand?. I know there will be those with the, “My Beemer never breaks down”, or “Maybe you just don’t know how to take care of it”. Or my favorite: "BMW puts a coating on the cylinder walls that make it harder to break in". Really? Cause Suzuki also has speecial treatment on their bikes, yet they don't burn oil? All the Jap bikes I have owned where air, or air and oil cooled, and they didn't burn oil either. Though some will have good arguments, I’ve owned SEVERAL cars, and motorcycles and other then a Ford Explorer I owned, also new, I’ve never owned a machine that demanded so much attention. Trust me, if I was in a position to offload the Beemer, it would already be gone and I wouldn’t be here.

Though I do like the bike, other then the aforementioned faults, this will be my last BMW motorcycle. I just can’t believe I was dumb enough to fall for the hype. Fool me once, BMW, shame on me.



UPDATE: I have confirmed that there is Nickel plating used on our engines.

Oh one more thing, when I have a gripe I never delete a post. If you're going to have an opinion and vent, have enough charcter to stand by what you say or type. I will apoligize for the negative tone, was not a very happy little Beemer when I wrote that.

[1150929]

Rui,

You are exactly right about people acting like gentlemen. That's what is expected of everyone. The "f-off" comment is not necessary. Disagree if that is your position, but do it with logic and civility.


DSKYZD

I was trying to be funny...obviously failed. Sorry.

Dwayne, didn't mean to spell your name wrong. If this makes you feel better, it doesn't seem that you have ABS, now if you want to talk about labour intensive! For the record, I have complained on this site (I think) about the choke, poor battery access, service costs, dealers...

[EddieRR]

hey man, I know you were pissed when the Beemer let you down. I feel you. I just pick up my RR and out $500 bucks of my own pocket to fixed the darned engine shut off due to cable tie over tighted. I was pissed too but the minute I rode her off, I thought f-it. Riding R is purely fun and I missed her so much.

Life is full with choice, compare Beemer and JP bikes is pointless. you love Seiko? buy a seiko. all my automatic watches required lot more TLC. even with lots TLC it still off by a minute or 2 everyday. the Seiko hardly off few seconds a year. would I wear a Seiko?

Same to cars, my sport car require lot more maintenance. heck, even a set of tires only last 8-10k miles. on the other hand the Camry will last forever with minimum care and change tires every 40k miles. would I drive a Camry?

Beemer can survive in today's market and they must have something others don't, only if you can see it.

Man, enjoy what you have or get rid of it.

[chris]

Hey Dwayne,
Hope you're feeling better after venting a little and don't decide to junk the beemer. Mine burns some oil too but my xr drinks almost as much oil as petrol, (methinks the valve guide seals may have gone..again...) and I had to shell out £360 for a fuel pump because the mount was bent and had the indicators fail because of the teutonic tightness of the cable ties but what the hell, when I walk by the R or stand looking it over for a few minutes in the garage it still makes me smile. I know I have the advantage of owning the classiest, sexiest colour out there but your beauty isn't that far behind.
Just go have a look at it now and see if you can't raise a smile about everything else that is the R.

PS. BMW just came top today in the UK rider power survey for reliablity, for the 4th time in the 8 years it's been running.

[sjbmw]

PS. BMW just came top today in the UK rider power survey for reliablity, for the 4th time in the 8 years it's been running.

Just had to do it huh?

I hope you feel better Dwayne. Venting can be healthy.
Now go take a ride huh?

When the snow and ice comes up there you will be looking at your R in the garage going "my baby"...

[dragonmojo]

Sounds like a wonderful idea (to go out and seriously put on another 50,000 miles and see if the oil consumption is still a problem). It'd be a fun proposition for me anyway. It is often hard to describe why we enjoy the bikes we enjoy, whether it be BMWs, Harleys, or any of the Asian or other European bikes.

Logic and reason on many occasions take pillion to passion and lust.

[GeoffJ]

Dwayne, I appreciate your honesty. Today's BMWs are not as reliable as they use to be. I honestly believe the best models were made during the 70's and 80's.

My '96 R1100R surges and burns about one quart of oil every 1k miles. It needed a new clutch and clutch input shaft with only 24k miles on the odometer. Also, a wire leading to the ignition switch recently broke where it pivots near the front of the gas tank.

I use to ride a '79 R100RS. I sold the bike with 85k miles on the odometer. Besides flat tires, I never had a single problem, and the bike didn't burn oil.

I'm considering the new Moto Guzzi Norge and Yamaha FJR as a replacement for my R1100R. Then again, I might save some coin and find an old '79 RS.

[Beemeridian]

87

[JCsman]

Today's BMWs are not as reliable as they use to be. I honestly believe the best models were made during the 70's and 80's.

I really can't say how accurate this statement is. Today's internet postings can magnify the good and the bad. And I don't know of any independent sources. So far (knock on wood) my experiment of one is holding up fine.

But.....it stands to reason there may be more failures. Consider the power output and rev range of the large boxers of the 70's and 80's.

Even with tremendous improvements in technology, metals, design and manufacturing BMW is asking a lot more out of today's boxers. Of course the new 1200's have even more power and rev higher...

[dwayne]

I know I have the advantage of owning the classiest, sexiest colour out there but your beauty isn't that far behind.
Just go have a look at it now and see if you can't raise a smile about everything else that is the R.

PS. BMW just came top today in the UK rider power survey for reliablity, for the 4th time in the 8 years it's been running.

Now Chris, I told you before, Dark Ferro is the sexiest colour, then Silver. Geeez, how many times do I have to type it!!

[dwayne]

Rui,

You are exactly right about people acting like gentlemen. That's what is expected of everyone. The "f-off" comment is not necessary. Disagree if that is your position, but do it with logic and civility.


DSKYZD

I was trying to be funny...obviously failed. Sorry.

Dwayne, didn't mean to spell your name wrong. If this makes you feel better, it doesn't seem that you have ABS, now if you want to talk about labour intensive! For the record, I have complained on this site (I think) about the choke, poor battery access, service costs, dealers...

It's all good dude. Now I need to shake off this cold, I have an Archery lesson tomorrow, and with my hacking up a lung I may end up messing up my shoot, I'd hate to get the nickname of Cupid.

[dragonmojo]

I know I have the advantage of owning the classiest, sexiest colour out there but your beauty isn't that far behind.
Just go have a look at it now and see if you can't raise a smile about everything else that is the R.

PS. BMW just came top today in the UK rider power survey for reliablity, for the 4th time in the 8 years it's been running.

Now Chris, I told you before, Dark Ferro is the sexiest colour, then Silver. Geeez, how many times do I have to type it!!

Always bet on black!

[dwayne]

I know I have the advantage of owning the classiest, sexiest colour out there but your beauty isn't that far behind.
Just go have a look at it now and see if you can't raise a smile about everything else that is the R.

PS. BMW just came top today in the UK rider power survey for reliablity, for the 4th time in the 8 years it's been running.

Now Chris, I told you before, Dark Ferro is the sexiest colour, then Silver. Geeez, how many times do I have to type it!!

Always bet on black!

Look! It's bad enough that I have to keep reminding Chris in the err of his ways, now don't go on about Black. Okay, Black is the colour of BMW, I'll give you that, but...

[dwayne]

Today's BMWs are not as reliable as they use to be. I honestly believe the best models were made during the 70's and 80's.

I really can't say how accurate this statement is. Today's internet postings can magnify the good and the bad. And I don't know of any independent sources. So far (knock on wood) my experiment of one is holding up fine.

But.....it stands to reason there may be more failures. Consider the power output and rev range of the large boxers of the 70's and 80's.

Even with tremendous improvements in technology, metals, design and manufacturing BMW is asking a lot more out of today's boxers. Of course the new 1200's have even more power and rev higher...

So, would it be safe to assume that you believe that the Boxer design itself has reached, and perhaps gone past its sell-by-date? It is an old design, but could it have something to do with us demanding more from the machines? I'm thinking out loud... I would say that most new riders are using thier bikes mostly for weekend jaunts....I could be wrong, then you have people like me that use it for commuting, 110 Km's per day, 5 days a week.

[Just-Beeming]

Wow Dwayne...you stirred up the gang.....


You could be wrong...my jaunts are bigger. But max of 500 mi a day.
I got my R in January with 4k...used a little oil at first....but not much.

My R today...18k pushing 19k...oil use...next to nada.

On my most recent 4000 mi vacation I used about 60cc of oil...If that much.

There are a lot of bikes for a lot of different folks/cultures/styles....I like the beemer best of any I have ridden so far.
It moves me.

Just beeming