The 33k km tranny shaft . . .again!

[tor1150r]

Had another ride in a flatbed truck this weekend. Two of them actually!
I may buy my own truck.

Some of you may remember by driveshaft/clutch plate incident in Labrador while touring across Canada last year.

Same thing happened this weekend.
In both instances I was cruising in 4th (~4k rpm) @ 80 km/h.
Both times on flat pavement with a steady throttle (not accelerating or decelerating).
Both days were clear and sunny.
Both happened at approx the 33k km mark (first time at 33839 km, this time at 66742). Do the math. Isn't that odd?
Both times inconvenient as hell.
Both times no signs/symptoms - just sudden loss of power and a squeal

The differences? Last time I was still under warranty. I must admit that BMW came through with flying colours when it came to added expenses and a loaner bike.
But my warranty expired 32 days ago. So out of warranty this time.

I believe there is something quite wrong with the bikes inners. I have written to my dealer with great expectations. Fixing it is one thing, but I believe there is something else wrong and it will happen again in another 33k kms.

I've yet to miss a scheduled manitenance. And always by the dealer. I will take spirited rides, but by no means do I abuse the machine. I get 20k-25k kms on a set of tires. Still have original front pads (although a chance is due real soon). I take good care of this thing. I have my shifting (up and down) down to an art.

Has anyone heard of this freakish failure before? And twice on the same bike?

[boxermania]

There have been some reported failures, don't recall any on a recent model as yours, on the other hand, I'm sure that all failures have not come to light. These failures are typical of missalignment or machining errors. I have heard these referred to on others posts by owners that have experienced the same type failure.

Assuming that the dealer performed a good repair the first time around, the failure does support the above theory. A good failure analysis should have been performed on the first failure, since it is obvious that the problem has not been corrected.

What has happened is that failed parts have been replaced by new parts that in turn are not operating within the design envelope, hence the premature failures.

So what are your options:

I would attempt. in a very nice way, to make your dealer see that the ocurrence is systematic and nothing to do with the maintenance and operation of the bike. That might get you another repair, however if the root cause is not foundand corrected, I'm afraid that you will be in for another surprise in 33K km.

I'm sorry that you have been struck twice and hope that the issue can be resolved to your satisfaction. Do keep us posted.

[geothepencil]

Yes, I have heard of it 3 times in the BMW guarantee period. Eventually required a new short block engine. Hasn't happened since. Supports the theory that there was a misalignment of something. This was on an R1150RT. Boxermania's thoughts are the way to go here IMO. Good luck !

geo

[tmoran]

i just returned from a 300 mile round trip, almost made it home, my2002 R1150R with 46,600 miles on it suddenly stopped functioning about 30 miles from home. Felt like a clutch problem, the engine just started revving freely while I was in fourth gear. After that it wouldn't shift into gear without making a horrible noise, and wouldn't carry on. This seems premature for a worn out clutch, and my dealer is suggesting it is a transmission bearing (they haven't examined it yet). Has anyone else experienced this problem, or am I on my own on this one?

[miekusss]

Hey...
My bike is at my dealer as we speak for service and a new clutch!
It's at 80000 km's and while driving trough France, my clutch started slipping.
Only when I increase speed and above 110 km/h...
My previous bike (R110RS) had a worn clutch and it slipped at every speed
and about 3500 rpm, no matter what the speed was.
I hope I hear something from my dealer today... the lonebike is a F650GS
and it rides like crap!

[tor1150r]

Thanks for the replies gents.

Boxermania - that's exactly what I suspect. Mis-alignment somewhere.
I expect to have this repaired/diagnosed this week, and I'm confident BMW will extend a grace period to cover this.

I've taken a level-headed approach with the dealer (via email). I'll be in touch with them this week and I'll post their actions on this board.

Thanks!

[tor1150r]

My bike has been taken apart by the dealer. They've determined that it's the same failure as last summer. The clutch plate and splined shaft that drives it.
A BMW dealer performed the repair last summer (note: keep all service receipts as long as you own the bike).

They also told me the even though my 3-yr warranty was up, parts are warranted for 2 years...labour included. This is good news, and something I wasn't aware of until now.

I'll have a definite 'OK to repair under warranty' in the next day or so. The dealer said I could stop by and have a look or take pics of the parts.

Will post again once things are settled.

[riceburner]

You've done HOW MANY miles on ONE set of brake pads????? HOW???


are you doing ALL your braking by using engine braking??? I think this might be putting a lot of unnecessary strain on your gearbox and clutch.

[OU812]

You've done HOW MANY miles on ONE set of brake pads????? HOW???


are you doing ALL your braking by using engine braking??? I think this might be putting a lot of unnecessary strain on your gearbox and clutch.

I concur.

[challey]

C'mon guys - tor1150r describes taking "spirited rides" - gotta be using the brakes more or less normally or he'd have planted himself in a tree or guard rail by now.

I've got about 21k miles on my stock front brake pads - not far short of 30k km - and I know I exercise mine pretty seriously.
Blaming a drive line failure on excessive engine braking is a stretch, especially on bikes with an unusually high percentage of these kind of failures. Misalignment seems a more likely culprit.

Just my 2 cents YMMV.

Charlie

[OU812]

Challey, how many miles have you got on your rear set of pads? I just replaced mine, as they were shot at 8k miles, and I over used them because my fronts whine when I slow to a stop. Funny, after I realigned the front wheel after the tire was replaced, the whine stopped.

[Beemeridian]

764

[OU812]

Here it was.
http://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=11233

[Beemeridian]

7676

[OU812]

He is a Wizard.

[challey]

OU812 asked

Challey, how many miles have you got on your rear set of pads?

Just over 12k mi. They are about 3/4's worn, so I've maybe got another 3-4k to go.
My fronts have always made noise unless I was squeezing the heck out of 'em.

Charlie

[tor1150r]

You've done HOW MANY miles on ONE set of brake pads????? HOW???


are you doing ALL your braking by using engine braking??? I think this might be putting a lot of unnecessary strain on your gearbox and clutch.

I use both brakes to slow the bike down, and down-shift to come to a smooth stop, or before entering a curve. I do need new front pads (between 1-2 mm depth left on the pad wear lines). I just replaced my 2nd set of rear pads.

Keep in mind that I put on 30k km last summer - most of which was on a cross-country trip. Most of that was at constant speed on pretty vacant roads. Quite different than 30k km of regular commuting, sunday joy rides and stop/go traffic. I would think this has a lot to do with squeezing that kind of mileage out of a set of pads.

I'm not big on engine breaking, as brake pads are less expensive to replace. I do gear down though, but I'll blip the throttle to keep is as smooth as possible - sometimes while applying the brakes.

I'm off to the dealer on Monday or Tuesday. I'll post with the details and their discovery.

[CycleRob]

This should not drift away to a brakepad post . . . . but my 2002 model's front pads are just now nearing replacement at just under 57,000 miles (91,700km). I downshift (smoothly) a lot, all the time, every decel. I just like the sound and the sensation of the engine slowing us down while the EFI injects zero fuel.
I already have the HH front pads in the toolbox and will change them before next year.

Back on track . . . . The chewed up splines are definitely an alignment problem and/or an improper carburizing (surface hardening) of the shaft's surface. I'm glad BMW owned up to their failures. That type of spline damage is not possible with any type of rider abuse. Have you EVER heard of this type of damage in ANY car??? No mater how unmercifully insane the full throttle or high speed abuse is, car splines never shred like like that.

[RBrider]

The input shaft of the transmission must be in perfect alignment with the center line of the crankshaft, or the misalignment will cause the
clutch plate to crack and break near the splines.

When I used to work on large trucks with Cummins diesel engines, the manual required that a dial indictator be attached to the fly wheel and the engine then rotated so as to ensure that the transmission alignment was perfect in relation to the centerline of the crankshaft. (I condensed this quite a bit).

If perfect alignment is that important in large equipment, it is even more critical in our small engine/transmissions one would think.

I believe you have a slight alignment problem.

How to check it though, is another matter. Any suggestions, CycleRob?

RB

[CycleRob]

Because modern manufacturing processes have near 100% inspection designed in for critical parts, misalignment is taken for granted to be virtually impossible. Chances are that more than a few parts escaped the factory with mis-indexed or improperly machined engine or transmission cases. An off-axis alignment error of only .050" (1.27mm) would shorten part lifespan considerably. A spline failure twice in a row at the about the same short mileage says that misalignment, rather than poor heat treating, is the problem.

Measuring/checking the shaft alignments might only be possible back at the factory where the individual parts can be accurately rechecked by dedicated assembly line machines. My guess is the parts slipped thru the cracks or were not considered bad enough to be included in the failed and rejected sequence of parts.

It's right that BMW owned up to the repair, but until the shortblock and transmission cases are replaced, this is going to happen again and we know just about when.