F800SST vs R1200R - Suspensions

[Zinger]

I'm requiring ABS for my next bike, which has led me into BMW territory and ultimately here since I really liked the R1200R.

Now, I am also considering the F800ST. I plan on test riding both bikes, but in the meantime I'm having fun doing research.

The main reason I am leaning towards the R1200R is because of the linked ABS brake setup. I like the idea of applying a percentage of the back brake automatically.

The other reason I'm not so sure of is the tele/paralever suspension setup on the R1200R vs the conventional setup on the F800ST. Is it really a BETTER setup? If so, is it "better enough" to be worth going for? I am really intrigued by the idea of a bike squatting when breaking vs having the front end dive down.

If it's not clear from this, I am really looking for the best braking, stable bike I can get for my next ride. I'm certainly not opposed to the cheaper price on the F800ST though, but I continue to like the looks of the R1200R better.

I know, I know, I really need to go test ride.

[owldaddy]

I love the suspension on the R bikes. I have said many times, "If BMW puts a telelever on the F800ST I would buy one" Ride them both, thats all it took for me was one ride. Suspension is very important to me. Important enough that the F800 will have to wait. If suspension isn't that important to you, then the F800 maybe just what your looking for. Come on BMW get me off this R bike and put a telelever on the F800.
Don

[combustor777]

I'm requiring ABS for my next bike, which has led me into BMW territory and ultimately here since I really liked the R1200R.

Now, I am also considering the F800ST. I plan on test riding both bikes, but in the meantime I'm having fun doing research.

The main reason I am leaning towards the R1200R is because of the linked ABS brake setup. I like the idea of applying a percentage of the back brake automatically.

The other reason I'm not so sure of is the tele/paralever suspension setup on the R1200R vs the conventional setup on the F800ST. Is it really a BETTER setup? If so, is it "better enough" to be worth going for? I am really intrigued by the idea of a bike squatting when breaking vs having the front end dive down.

If it's not clear from this, I am really looking for the best braking, stable bike I can get for my next ride. I'm certainly not opposed to the cheaper price on the F800ST though, but I continue to like the looks of the R1200R better.

I know, I know, I really need to go test ride.

Man what a tough choice! I'm struggling with this one as well. The linked setup has a neat "gee-whiz" factor but I don't feel that it adds anything when you have ABS. I love the telelever setup. Being able to brake into a corner without the suspension getting upset is great. Rough roads are just not an issue either. DIsadvantage is less feedback from the front end. It isn't fair to say the Telelever is "better" but it is different, with the tradeoffs I mentioned. From what I've been reading the F800ST front suspension isn't up to the task if you are >160-170 lbs, so that may need attention if you fall into this category. I think you will find that both bikes have outstanding brakes, some of the best available. The F800 has a lot on the R12 though; the high tech rotax engine, no maint. belt drive, unmatched efficiency, lighter weight, fuels up like a car. As for looks/cool factor it is a little vanilla. People are always complimenting, asking questions etc. about my R1150R and nobody ever noticed my F650CS or MG Breva. Probably the same for the R1200R since it's almost as good looking as an 1150 Good luck and let us know what you find out after the rides!

[Boxer]

As for looks/cool factor it is a little vanilla

Can you explain that? ....I think I know what you mean, and I kind of feel the same way....but not sure.

[combustor777]

As for looks/cool factor it is a little vanilla

Can you explain that? ....I think I know what you mean, and I kind of feel the same way....but not sure.

95% of bikes you see on the road are either harley/harley wannabe bikes or full faired sportbikes and the F800 looks a lot like the latter. Even non-bike people notice the naked roadster and her jugs hanging out in the breeze. It's weird, some drivers are downright courteous (when they see me) compared to other rides I've been on. Stupid as it sounds, it gives off a more positive vibe for those people, who look at other bikers as pirates or squids; or maybe they just like naked jugs, can't say I blame them. Even so, I still want an ST!

[Airman]

Zinger,

My '`03 R1150R has the semi-linked ABS brakes. I bought the ABS with the idea that ABS would be better on the wet surfaces I ride on a good deal of the time. I now have 32k miles on the bike and can't say I have ever felt the front ABS engage. The brakes on the RR are so good they'll evidently give you nosebleed even before you enter the area where the ABS clicks in. Since the rear brake can be engaged separately, and is much less effective than the front, I have triggered the rear ABS alone. When I bought my BMW the ABS option was $2000. Given my experience with the ABS, if I lived in a climate where the riding was mostly done in the dry, I would question whether the additional cost of the ABS was worth it. On the early bikes, (not the 1200 I think) the cost of the ABS module is a budget straining replacement idem should it fail. Your mentioning of the linked engagement of the rear brake is worth a thought. A lot of riders don't practice panic braking and when faced with having to haul down from 80 in a couple of hundred feet, do the wrong thing. The linked brakes at least apply proportionate pressure front and rear, avoiding the locking of the rear during braking.

[Zinger]

Zinger,
Your mentioning of the linked engagement of the rear brake is worth a thought. A lot of riders don't practice panic braking and when faced with having to haul down from 80 in a couple of hundred feet, do the wrong thing. The linked brakes at least apply proportionate pressure front and rear, avoiding the locking of the rear during braking.

That is exactly my point of view. I don't ride nor practice braking every day, and I'm wise enough to realize that given a true panic situation the odds are I will lock up a brake and/or simply stop much slower than I could to avoid a problem. The idea of simply applying the front brake and being able to leverage the stopping power of both the front and rear combined is ideal. This is why I'm really leaning towards the R1200R.

ABS on the new bike is $1,100. The question is, what is your hide worth?

[MattPie]

The other reason I'm not so sure of is the tele/paralever suspension setup on the R1200R vs the conventional setup on the F800ST. Is it really a BETTER setup? If so, is it "better enough" to be worth going for? I am really intrigued by the idea of a bike squatting when breaking vs having the front end dive down.

As others have said, it's different. I'm used to it, so whenever I ride a 'normally suspended' bike it feels odd to me. The normal bikes seem to buck back and forth when accelerating and braking, whereas the BMW seems to stay flat. The BMW feels like a cruise missile: it just tracks on its course and nothing seems to upset it.

The good thing is BMW dealers are generally cool about demos and test rides. Go ride one and find out if you like it!

[Zinger]

I'm curious about something from reading other topics...

Are you guys telling me you can apply the brakes full-on in a turn with the telelever suspension system? Other posts indicate this is so. If so that is amazing.

[owldaddy]

Are you guys telling me you can apply the brakes full-on in a turn with the telelever suspension system?

Yep, I had the opportunity to try it out one day, the bike didn't shift weight forward and compress the forks like on a standard telescopic fork system. it just maintained the line I was committed to and it slowed down, fast! I love it. It makes for a very stable ride. With a high quality shock, this system is awesome.

[bobw]

Test ride for sure. The difference between the 800 series and r1200r IMHO will not be decided in the brakes as both have excellent stopping capabilities, but more importantly their own ergonomic fit and personalities.

There may be some semantics in the "full on braking in curves" or at least subjectivity in the parameters the opinion resulted from. ABS "does not work" while leaned over in curves and mild trail braking is far different from full on braking in a tight curve and the results from both could be very different regardless the suspension type. JMHO and YMMV. The suspensions both are advantageous in different ways/applications, but neither one is a magic wand that makes a tire grip beyond its own limitations.

That being said, I love the r1200r, the vague front end was quickly adjusted to just like any bike's "quirks". The 1200's are far different from the 1150 series. They are both great fun, but do not make the comparison on an 1150 VS 800 pro/con. The 800's are a sharp, well balanced offering at a nice price point. Suspension and other bits are upgraded by riders on every model of every brand so that is a wash to me. When I test ride a bike, if everything overall makes me SMILE a BUNCH, that is the one I buy.

Good luck

[MattPie]

There may be some semantics in the "full on braking in curves" or at least subjectivity in the parameters the opinion resulted from. ABS "does not work" while leaned over in curves and mild trail braking is far different from full on braking in a tight curve and the results from both could be very different regardless the suspension type. JMHO and YMMV. The suspensions both are advantageous in different ways/applications, but neither one is a magic wand that makes a tire grip beyond its own limitations.

Agreed. I was leaned over quite a bit the other day and just tapped the front (EDIT: R1150R linked ABS) brake and I felt the front wobble a little and the bike tried to stand up just a hair. Nothing that upset the chassis or severely affected the line I was on, but just enough to know something happened. Granted, I shouldn't be doing any braking while leaned over, but it was particularly nasty long right-hander that quickly decreased radius at the end. I don't think I got that corner completely right all day.

You can get away with somewhat heavy braking in corners because rarely do most people truly use all the traction available. Not a good habit to get in to though!

[OU812]

Are you guys telling me you can apply the brakes full-on in a turn with the telelever suspension system?

Yep, I had the opportunity to try it out one day, the bike didn't shift weight forward and compress the forks like on a standard telescopic fork system. it just maintained the line I was committed to and it slowed down, fast! I love it. It makes for a very stable ride. With a high quality shock, this system is awesome.

The front end will dive if you let off the throttle. Have not figured that one out, but the front end stays up when braking. Weird.

[OU812]

And the R1200R pops a wheelie far easier than the ST.

[papasong]

The Brembo brakes on the F800ST are amazing. I've been riding an ST for about a year and a half, and it's a great bike.
That being said, I'm trading to an R1200R any day now... I wish I could keep them both.

[Zinger]

The Brembo brakes on the F800ST are amazing. I've been riding an ST for about a year and a half, and it's a great bike.
That being said, I'm trading to an R1200R any day now... I wish I could keep them both.

What is causing the trade up?

[papasong]

A desire for more power, better/different suspension, more comfortable (for me) ergonomics, and I really wanted to ride a boxer...

[The Meromorph]

The way I explain how the front Telever feels is:
It feels like there's little feedback from the front end. A good conventional fork set up will give you all sorts of hints about what's happening at the front wheel. The Telelever doesn't. What you have to learn to accept, is that that's because there isn't much happening at the front wheel - it's just calmly and efficiently handling what the road throws at it, there's not much it needs to tell you about, it's all handled!

[OU812]

Trust you tires. I do.
http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpa ... 169&po=169

[CycleRob]

FYI: Mr OU812, (Steve) and I became friends blasting the mountain roads (just us) during the Ozark Arkansas Bash. His plans to make a 2 BMW rally loop included staying 3 nites at my house last weekend. We did what 2 Beemer guys do when the 3 day schedule is wide open. Work on his bike, ride the bikes, consume good food (thanks Ann and Steve!) and drink beverages. It was a productive and fun time, especially our roller coaster, green blurr, disaster free ride up route 60 into the Georgia Mountains Taken in it's entirety, I think it's better than the Dragon because the roads are wider with less totally blind corners and they have occasional passing lanes.

Steve, You are fortunate you have tires you can trust and a touring bike that is so well designed it can take the tires all the way to the edge without metal sparks or low-siding. This (to the edge) is exactly what you did as we rode route 60 North to Blood Mountain the beginning of this week. The OEM Bridgestone BT-020 tires on my new bike did not offer me that confidence level I have experienced after Metzeler Z-6 tires replaced OEM tires. I did not feel it enough to actually find that limit, even though I felt I had exceeded it. There is 6mm of virgin rubber still showing. I'm also re-adjusting to having telescopic forks reduced invincibility while braking in sharp/hot corners. Rear brake only! I know the bike is fully capable, just not with BT-020 tires and their lack of full confidence. Personally I think, and the average R1200RT rider may agree, your MotoCross bike experience in your wild youth actually deserves most of the credit.

.