Some tire talk - tire changers and tire wear

[hjsbmw]

I met a guy through the MOA forum close to where I live. He has a No-Mar tire changer and balancer and replaced my front tire. The old tire still had some miles in it but had gotten worn unevenly (more on the left), and it had gotten scalloped. This is the first time I changed the front, and all I can say is 'what a difference'. It handles like a new bike in turns with better aim and stability. I won't wait as long again.

I really liked the guy's setup, but it is not cheap. I think all in all it may run at about $800-$900. There are less expensive solutions, such as tire irons or the Cycle Hill changer. I don't feel inclined to go the tire iron route but might give the Cycle Hill model some thought. Does anyone here have it or has experience with it otherwise?

I changed my rear tire last year and saw it also is getting slightly scalloped on the left side. I don't think this has been the case on my other motorcycles before. Is it a side effect of the paralever?

I have Metzeler Z6 front and rear.

[daveyator]

My front had scalloped after 13k or so and the rear had a minor flat wear in the center. I usually keep factory recommended pressure but the mechanic told me to simply run 35ish in the front and 40 in rear (in other words the pressure was too low). I put 500 more on the front before I could get it in and the scalloping seemed to have ebbed a little and the bike did feel better with slightly higher pressure.

[hjsbmw]

My front had scalloped after 13k or so and the rear had a minor flat wear in the center.

I am not concerned about scalloping on the front. I do, however, observe some scalloping on the rear, and that I have not seen on other bikes. I am used to what you describe: flat along the center with some variation in the degree of bald spots.
I am sure the tire pressure has an effect on the scalloping on the rear, but I am wondering if there is more to it. All my other motorcycles were chain driven with dual side swing arms and lighter. I suspect these factors also influence the rear wear pattern?

[ShinySideUp]

I've run Pilot Road II's, Bridgestone BT021's, and Continental Road Attacks, and none of them, front or rear, has scalloped. Maybe it's your tire brand?

[hjsbmw]

I've run Pilot Road II's, Bridgestone BT021's, and Continental Road Attacks, and none of them, front or rear, has scalloped. Maybe it's your tire brand?

Hm, that's a possibility. I might try a different tire next time. Which of the three you mentioned can you recommend?

[ka5ysy]

I love my Pilot Road 2's. They are as sticky as the Conti Road Attacks that came with the bike OEM, but are at least double the mileage capability so far. I am at 12,000 miles on my set now, and they are just beginning to show some flat on the centers. It is a great rain tire, and has no problem scraping the pegs in twisties. They show no chicken strips at all!

[deilenberger]

My first set of PR-II's did scallop on the front end - enough to start making a loud hum. This was at about 13,000 miles, so I wasn't overly upset. Put on another set and have another years worth of rubber to wear out.. I suspect part of it is the preponderance of straight/flat roads in my part of NJ - my commute really does square off tires eventually (there are only so many on/off ramps I can take during the commute..)

[BigEasy]

[quote="hjsbmw"]
I really liked the guy's setup, but it is not cheap. I think all in all it may run at about $800-$900. There are less expensive solutions, such as tire irons or the Cycle Hill changer. I don't feel inclined to go the tire iron route but might give the Cycle Hill model some thought. Does anyone here have it or has experience with it otherwise?

[quote]

I bought the cycle hill last year and it's a nice unit. I would love to have the no-mar but as you observed about twiced the price of the cycle hill. I think it's probably worth the price they charge but the thing that really killed it for me was space. I don't have the luxury of dedicating that much floor space for a machine that'll only get used 4-5 times a year. The thing about the cycle hill is that you can break it down and store it on a shelf, and it only takes 5-10 minutes to assemble/disassemble. I set concrete anchors in my drive way that I mount the changer to when I use it and just remove the lag bolts when done.

In my search I looked at those two, another called the tire stripper, and of course the harbor frieght. Right now I can't remember why I rejected the tire stripper(IIRC bad rfeviews on the ST1300 forum), but the HF got 86'd because of a couple of things. Namely the clamping mechanism would scratch wheels badly, there are solutions to this out there i.e. derilyn blocks iether sourced on the net or home made. The other deal killer was the dismount bar, I would have wanted the no mar-cycle hill. Those things, along with the storage option of the cycle hill pointed me to that decision. You could get a HF unit and upgrade it to do the job but after all is said and done you'd have almost as much money in it as the cycle hill, plus the time to source and assemble it all.

I got into changing my own tires as a cost/benifit solution. The closest indy shop that does tires charges $35.00/tire when you bring the tire and wheel to them and it's a 30 minute drive each way. I had them do a set for my DR 650 and they managed to rip a valve stem out of my tube, they're not touching the R12R as a result. (the other result was a tire iron set up and self changing on the garage floor) The BMW dealer is an hour away, they charge $45.00 off the bike. I can change a tire in less than an hour including whell removal and reinstallation.

It sounds like you have some riding buddies so you may look at a couple of you going together to buy one to reduce the hit.

[hjsbmw]

I bought the cycle hill last year and it's a nice unit. I would love to have the no-mar but as you observed about twiced the price of the cycle hill.

From what I see online the main differences are the bead breaker and the clamping mechanism. With the No-Mar you secure the wheel by wedging it in by turning a clamp that has an increasing radius. It looks very solid. How do you do it on the Cycle Hill?

[BigEasy]

The CH is similar to the HF in that the rim is clamped via adjusting screws on the mounting blocks, it takes a little finesse but it will hold the rim firmly. However, if you do not keep the oposite side bead in the wheel valley the rim wheel will slip in the blocks and cause some heartaches.

[ShinySideUp]

+1 on the PR II's. I'm over 12K miles and have a slightly flat center on the rear.

[PhilSB]

This is a website I came across with ideas and advice about changing tyres.
http://www.clarity.net/~adam/tire-changing.html

[hoflix]

Did you say 800 for a tire changer setup???? OK, I'm sure it's nice and all, but if you don't use it professionally, I would say it's not worth it.

So don't just buy yet... keep reading:

I bought the HarborFreight changer with the moto attachment from craigslist for $30 (!!) (demount bar was missing, but I hear that's useless anyway)

Then I spent $1 (one dollar) at Homedepot buying 4 pvc end-pipe caps, 1/2 inch, to make wheel clamps.

Did a lot of research about demount bars... 2 options kept popping into searches: the mojolever ($100) and the no-mar bar ($110+sh). I almost ordered the mojolever, because of the lower price, but I found a 3rd option... the "no scuff tire tool" (google it) that sells for 87 shipped. Seems like a good design, sort of a hybrid between the mojolever and the no-mar bar. All I can say is that $13 won me over It's in the mail right now...

OK OK, I didn't actually got around to test my setup but it should work. I'll post some pics maybe once I've done it.

So what's left of that 800 can buy me 3 sets of tires, close to 30k miles


Plus the fun in messing with the design of the HF changer....

[hjsbmw]

Did you say 800 for a tire changer setup????

That's what the person who changed mine had spent. However, including a balancer. I do not want to spend that much. He does have many friends, and it seems changes many tires.
I was thinking about the HF and modifying it. The Mojo guy offers the mount bar and blocks for the HF. With those, considering I might have to get the HF new, the whole setup would come out around $250. For $350 one can get the Cycle Hill. I wouldn't pinch pennies here if I genuinely knew the Cycle Hill is better, more convenient, etc. The Cycle Hill comes with a 5 year or even lifetime warranty. That might be a bonus.

I'll post some pics maybe once I've done it.

Please do. Not sure how the four PVC pieces come into play.

[BigEasy]

I have to change a couple of tires this week, I'll snap some pics of the process and post them for review also.

[BigEasy]

I changed a front tire last night, check Cycle Hill thread for pics

[hjsbmw]

My front had scalloped after 13k or so and the rear had a minor flat wear in the center. I usually keep factory recommended pressure but the mechanic told me to simply run 35ish in the front and 40 in rear (in other words the pressure was too low). I put 500 more on the front before I could get it in and the scalloping seemed to have ebbed a little and the bike did feel better with slightly higher pressure.

I'd like to emphasize and confirm what daveyator said. My new front tire started developing an uneven wear pattern somewhere around 2k miles: difference between left and right and somewhat bumpy surface, both visible and noticeable by touch.

I started inflating the tires with an additional 2psi, that is, 34psi on the front and 38psi on the rear versus the respective factory recommended 32/36psi. The wear pattern practically vanished, and the tire looks and feels almost smooth again. I have 3.5k miles on the front tire now.

[toomanybikes]

I cannot seem to get the mileage that everyone else is.
Metzler Z6 = 6,000 miles (R) 7,000 (F)
Metzler Z6 Interact = 3,000 miles (R) 6,000 (F)
Michelin PR2 = 7,000 miles (F+R)

I do about 50% straight roads/freeways and 50% canyons/winding roads.

Does anyone else have this issue??

[Jed]

I cannot seem to get the mileage that everyone else is.
Metzler Z6 = 6,000 miles (R) 7,000 (F)
Metzler Z6 Interact = 3,000 miles (R) 6,000 (F)
Michelin PR2 = 7,000 miles (F+R)

I do about 50% straight roads/freeways and 50% canyons/winding roads.

Does anyone else have this issue??

I got 8K on my Z6's running the BMW pressures for a solo with luggage (I'm a big guy that drives hard). @ 8K the front was trashed (started to go bad around 5K miles) and the rear had a smaller but noticeable flat spot.

My independent mechanic told me to run 39 Front /41 rear. I've got more than enough traction to drag hard parts of the bike. The steering is even lighter - no oversteer, no understeer. Straight line braking might be reduced ever so slightly (a too quick grab of the front brake gets the front tire to chirp) but other than that I'm very happy with the tire performance. I'm only about 3K into the new set, so I won't have any comparative data for another 3K miles. Given the increasing cold, I'm guess that will be sometime around Arpril 2011.

I'm convinced the factory recommends tire pressures based on ride quality and braking / lateral grip performance. I think the manufacturer is more aware of tire wear as an important criteria hence their pressures are somewhat higher. I'll run this set high and then choose how to inflate the next set based on what I find about performance versus wear with this set. I'm about 60% high speed highway and 40% hard turning on the back roads.

cheers,

[crazyhorse]

i use the HF tire changer. it's cheap and it does the trick. i did a lot of dirt tires on it first to get the hang of it and scratched a lot of rims. now i change both front and rear of my r12r on it without a problem.

it is impossible not to scratch your rims with it if you don't use some sort of protection for the clamps and the irons. i used to use heavy leather pieces, now i have the plastic mojoblocks and use simple motion pro rim protectors for the irons.

it saves me a ton of money and i like doing it myself. oh yes i also balance my wheels with the marc parnes balancer. it's a very nicely milled piece of metal.

changing tire is like riding, if it's really hard to do, you're doing it wrong. it's all technique. but it takes quite a bit of practice to get the technique down well.

wes