Prices

[NerdRider]

So I'm getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on a new R12R (or 12GS.. still undecided) and would like to know what the deal with haggling is. Everyone always says they got X for Y so I assume everyone when they buy a new vehicle does some song and dance, but I have (foolishly) never done this on my various vehicle purchases.

Suggestions? Tactics? Can I somehow even use how its the end of the 2010 model year for a deal?

I'm looking at a 2010/2009 new R12R with the touring package. MSRP is $13,795.

Thanks in advance all

[spenserj87]

Others may have different experiences, but the best I could do was get things bundled in - side cases and first service. MSRP is common from what I've heard.

[spoonyfork]

All the planets were aligned for me so I negotiated with my position of strength:

- 100% newbie salesperson (I was his first sale)
- last year's model ('08 in '09) at the end of winter when sales are slow
- in the throes of the Great Recession (March 2009)
- with cash money paid in full

It ended up being close to $2,000 knocked off the total price and some hardware thrown in like the sport windscreen. It helped to have some training and experience in competitive and collaborative negotiation.

YMMV

[Sander Abernathy]

I don't negotiate anything but when I bought my 2009 in April 2010 I asked the salesman if he could knock anything off the sticker and he did $800 with no more prodding than that.

It's all like pi***ing in the wind though. You get X off the sticker and they add back 2X in taxes, tag fees, delivery, blah, blah, blah.

[Dauntless]

I just asked for a better price. What do you have to lose?

The dealer near me is notorious for not dealing on bikes. A friend of mine couldn't get a good deal from them so he went down the road another 45 minutes and got a better deal. When the sales manager at first dealer found out about it, he said "why didn't you tell me, I could have done something?"

BTW, paying in cash is not a bargaining point since the dealer makes money on financing deals.

Tell them you are looking at a bunch of low mileage, slightly used bikes on the internet. That might get them to deal.

[websterize]

Didn't take much arm twisting for the dealer to drop the price $1K on a bike with 14 miles. It had been sitting more than six months.

[NerdRider]

Very good to know. Thanks for the input everyone. Hopefully I'll be picking up a new R12R next week.

[pyrate]

The big thing I have found is being willing to walk away. If you aren't, you will pay their price.

I put a phone deposit by credit card to hold a bike the dealer had just received til I could get there later the next day. When I arrived and started dealing they were unwilling to drop the price more than $200 because they had just received it. All they would offer is 25% off apparel and accessories. I have all of that so no dice. I was offering $1000 less than their sticker price to try and get them in the middle somewhere. No budge. I thanked them and asked for my deposit back. The sales person took my card and went to the cashier but en route stopped to chat with the owner and then came back and they accepted my offer. They knew I was walking so the negotiations were over and they accepted my price, not even a counter offer.

My hardest part is determine what I can pay vs what I am willing to pay. If the bike is worth it to you but you would just prefer to have it for less, that is easier. If you really can't afford it at the higher price you have to be willing to walk.

A friend of mine was a salesman for years and said sometimes it can help to be there on a busy day. They don't want to haggle with you forever and have someone else walk out because they were busy and miss out on two sales. But the downside is that other person might be making offers on your ride. Catch 22. A lot depends on the size of the dealership, how many sales persons they have and how many customers.

I hope it works out for you.

[Jed]

The big thing I have found is being willing to walk away. If you aren't, you will pay their price.

Exactly. I negotiate $100K to $1M+ deals for a living . . . and didn't listen to my own advise when I bought my R12R. Decide what you want to pay, what you are willing to pay and what you are unwilling to pay - offer what you want to pay and see where they go. Emotion is your enemy. You have to not care (be willing to walk) to get the best deals. If they won't deal, . . walk out. Try somewhere else. The original dealer will still be there months later willing to take his original price if you can't do better elsewhere.

The problem of course is that bike ownership are all about emotion! No sane person can honestly say that a new bike is worth 25% more than a barely used bike. I love my bike, but it's a terrible investment. Of course, we don't ride as an investment - but you get the idea.

cheers,

[Oilhead]

The 2009s have Dealer Rebates, both the GS & the R.

For example a loaded 2009 GS here is advertised at $14,990 reduced from $17,990 so I assume the rebate on the GS is $3,000? You may be able to get more off as the cash back is coming from the factory so the dealer may be able to do something for you. I myself was quite tempted at these prices.

http://www.cliffscyclerevolution.com/ne ... her&page=2

[Rocket]

The big thing I have found is being willing to walk away. If you aren't, you will pay their price.

Exactly. I negotiate $100K to $1M+ deals for a living . . . and didn't listen to my own advise when I bought my R12R. Decide what you want to pay, what you are willing to pay and what you are unwilling to pay - offer what you want to pay and see where they go. Emotion is your enemy. You have to not care (be willing to walk) to get the best deals. If they won't deal, . . walk out. Try somewhere else. The original dealer will still be there months later willing to take his original price if you can't do better elsewhere.

The problem of course is that bike ownership are all about emotion! No sane person can honestly say that a new bike is worth 25% more than a barely used bike. I love my bike, but it's a terrible investment. Of course, we don't ride as an investment - but you get the idea.

cheers,

I am also in the Purchasing profession, I agree with this too. There's nothing like competition to drive price down and its easier than trying to bluff your way to a lower price in negotiations with a trained salesman. Top tip - do your research first. Use the Internet to search for the best deal and use this as leverage in your negotiations . Just make sure you compare like for like otherwise it will be less effective tactic. It doesn't matter if you have no intention of travelling hours to the cheaper deal , your local dealer doesn't know that. (If buying new, you could safely buy unseen and have the bike delivered by a transport company, and your local dealer is bound to support warranty etc.)

[lewellen]

(If buying new, you could safely buy unseen and have the bike delivered by a transport company, and your local dealer is bound to support warranty etc.)

This is true. However, your local dealer will not be very happy with you, and in the future could be less likely to go to bat for you in case of an on-the-edge warranty issue ... or an "it's-out-of-warranty-but" issue.

I don't advocate spending more money than you have to, and there was very good advice here on negotiations and such. Just remember that some dealers have long memories, and BMW motorcycle dealerships tend to be farther apart. The one closest to home for me, for instance, is ~30 miles away; the next-closest one is more than 100, so maintaining reasonable relations with my smiling friendly local dealer is worth something to me.

The question is, how much. $100-$200 more to "buy local"? Yes ... but much more and I'd suspect the local dealer might have pricing issues in general.

Good roads,

- Lewellen

[Oilhead]

(If buying new, you could safely buy unseen and have the bike delivered by a transport company, and your local dealer is bound to support warranty etc.)

This is true. However, your local dealer will not be very happy with you, and in the future could be less likely to go to bat for you in case of an on-the-edge warranty issue ... or an "it's-out-of-warranty-but" issue.

I don't advocate spending more money than you have to, and there was very good advice here on negotiations and such. Just remember that some dealers have long memories, and BMW motorcycle dealerships tend to be farther apart. The one closest to home for me, for instance, is ~30 miles away; the next-closest one is more than 100, so maintaining reasonable relations with my smiling friendly local dealer is worth something to me.

The question is, how much. $100-$200 more to "buy local"? Yes ... but much more and I'd suspect the local dealer might have pricing issues in general.

Good roads,

- Lewellen

+1

Couldn't agree more. It's a two way street.

[silvermcoupe]

I just purchased a new bike last month. It was a GSXR 1000. I now have the R12R and the GSXR. The salesman gave me a discount off the sticker since I had purchased several bikes from him previously. I told him I would perfer to buy from him but I found the bike cheaper on ebay even with his discount. I showed him the ebay deal and he met it. Thank goodness. I didn't want to have to pay to have it shipped from NJ to Indiana.

Try to find the best deal on ebay for the bike. You can find dealers selling new ones. Use this strategy. it worked for me.

By the way GSXR is way fun but the insurance is way more than the R12R.

[lewellen]

I didn't want to have to pay to have it shipped from NJ to Indiana.

C'mon, it's only a day's ride. (Although Pennsylvania is a L-O-N-G state...) :-)

Congrats on the new wheels!

Good roads,

- Lewellen

[Stef.]

I assume your bike does not include ABS or ESA? Mine was much more expensive with the above. Nevertheless, I did haggle with the dealer as there was another offer from a dealer not too far away. So indeed, do your homework. I got my first service for free and he gave ma a very good trade in price of my old bike. He also gave me 1000$ of the new bike. I did not immediately buy the bike, but went home and gave him the impression that I had to seriously think about it.
Anyway good luck!
Stef.

[Rocket]

I disagree with the 2 way street thing. Sounds nice and cosy, but in reality, its mostly a one way street. Business is business and your dealer may be friendly but he's really interested in one thing - your money, so don't get too carried away with the loyalty thing. Nothing wrong, however, with "keeping in" with the loyal dealer, there are lots of good reasons for maintaining good relations. My point is that a"cosy" feeling may lead to you, the buyer, becoming complacent on price and best value. Ideal from the dealers point of view.
My advice is that it does no harm to keep the dealer on their toes once in a while - you're more likely to be treated better longer term.

[pyrate]

I disagree with the 2 way street thing. Sounds nice and cosy, but in reality, its mostly a one way street. Business is business and your dealer may be friendly but he's really interested in one thing - your money, so don't get too carried away with the loyalty thing. Nothing wrong, however, with "keeping in" with the loyal dealer, there are lots of good reasons for maintaining good relations. My point is that a"cosy" feeling may lead to you, the buyer, becoming complacent on price and best value. Ideal from the dealers point of view.
My advice is that it does no harm to keep the dealer on their toes once in a while - you're more likely to be treated better longer term.

I agree. It is a business transaction. While you don't want to create enemies needlessly it's more about how you treat the people than bargaining on the price, even with another dealer involved, that will cause problems when you return. If you throw out lame comments or get heated up in the negotiations that is going to cause far more harm when you bring the bike back for service - whether you bought it from them or not.

And Lewellen made a good point - haggling over a couple hundred dollars but making a bad impression isn't really a great idea. It might be better to try and figure out a service they can provide that you will need in the future (maintenance, parts or accessories) that you can factor in.