Something to watch for..

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deilenberger
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Something to watch for..

Post by deilenberger »

It would be of interest if a few other owners could take a looksee at thier bikes and see if my bike was "special" or if this is common to all our bikes.

Background - for about the past 30 months - my bike tended to have a crappy idle. It would idle roughly enough that the transmission input shaft clattered at idle if the clutch was engaged (and the shaft spinning.) Gear-rattle sort of noise. Not unknown certainly, but more of it then I'd expect, or remembered when the bike was new. The bike also had a bit of surge in 3rd and 4th gear at lower RPMs - again not awful like the R11XX bikes did, but enough to be noticeable and make it a bit harder to ride smoothly at lower RPMs. And 5th gear had a periodic buzz/drone - at about 1 second intervals. Could feel it through the footpegs. Again - not awful, didn't get any worse, I pretty much just ignored it figuring it was some odd resonance perhaps from the exhaust system.

Finally - I got annoyed at the idle, and decided to take a look at the bike with my GS-911. The current GS-911 software has the ability to watch engine readings in real time - from all sorts of sensors, and from the BMS-K (think ECU..) I had hooked it up when the bike was idling crappy in my garage, and somehow spotted that the O2 sensors seemed different. Luckily - the new software also has an O2 plotting function - so I switch that on, and what was happening became quite evident. The #2 (which is the left side) O2 sensor was dropping out - signal loss. When it lost the signal the bike idled crappy. When the signal came back the bike idled smoothly.

So.. I started trying to track down what was causing this. My initial thought was a lazy O2 sensor. I disconnected the sensor and ran the bike, and saw that when the BMS-K didn't see any signal from a sensor - it set the mixture value to a default value (about 0.4V - a good O2 sensor swings at one second intervals between 0.1-0.85V or so.) It didn't use this value when the sensor was plugged in - it lost the signal completely.

I then reconnected the sensor - and lo! and behold! it started working again. And the idle smoothed right out. Took it for a ride - the surge was gone, the 5th gear drone was gone, and the bike felt much different - less vibration (it never had reached the level my old RS was at.. but there was some..), overall - felt much better.

SO - I figured it was the connector giving problems, and disconnecting and reconnecting it fixed it.

Not so. Went for a ride last Saturday - about 150 miles over 4 hours or so - mostly all back road stuff - and about mid-day I could feel the character of the bike change (I was now "attuned" to it..) And the crappy idle came back, the drone came back, some buzz came back. So - it wasn't the connector.

Saturday night - next try - a new O2 sensor. It just happened that I had several "spare" R12R O2 sensors kicking around (part of my obsessive buying of spare parts off Ebay - I got two sensors and a complete harness for $50.. about $2,000 at BMW prices..) So - Saturday night - I replaced the sensor. Checked with the GS-911 and all appeared well.

Sunday's ride was longer - bike felt wonderful for the first 130 miles or so - then it changed character again, and was buzzy, crappy idle, drone for the next 120 miles.

SO - again - looking at it in the garage, I decided that since twice - disconnecting/reconnecting the O2 sensor "fixed" it - I'd use some of the magic "Stabilant-22" contact enhancer (stuff is VERY - VERY - expensive, but good) on the O2 sensor connector. While I was moving stuff around to dose the connectors - I spotted something:

Image

See the bright spot on the rib on the engine? In front of it is the harness coming from the left side of the bike. It has the O2 sensor, the throttle-position-sensor and the idle-stepper-motor wiring all in it. The harness didn't used to have the plastic corregated sleeve over it - I put that on. It had been simply cloth tape around the wiring. And it was pressed against the rib by the crankcase vent hose going from the left-cylinder to the airbox.

I think I found the problem. I didn't see any bare wire, but I intially did see the insulated wiring between turns in the cloth tape. I suspect the O2 sensor signal wire had rubbed through the insulation and was grounding out on the engine rib. When I disconnected the plug for the O2 sensor it moved the harness enough to temporarily eliminate the grounding out. I put the plastic sleeving (it's split so it's easy to put on) over that section of the harness so this wouldn't happen again.

So - what I'm curious about - does anyone else have the same bright spot? You do have to remove the crankcase hose, at least at the airbox end to really see it since it's right behind the hose. The crankcase hose uses clamps that are easily released with a set of slip-jaw pliers (you pull the two tangs sticking out toward each other - opening the clamp then wiggle it down the hose past the end of the stub the hose goes to.)

I'd also suggest that you check the tie-wraps holding some of the harness to the bottom of the throttle bodies. As is very common with BMW - those tie wraps were WAY too tight. I snipped mine and replaced them with new ones, tightened just enough to keep the wire in place - not so tight as to pinch it.

Curious what other might find..
Don Eilenberger - NJ Shore
2012 R1200R - I love this bike!
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r12gecko
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Re: Something to watch for..

Post by r12gecko »

Good post. Can't say I'm in there on a regular basis, but it's a great write-up to have backpocket.
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Re: Something to watch for..

Post by Peter1200r »

Don,
Just went out to the garage to look at my June 09 build R1200R. That harness is routed slightly differently on mine. Unlike yours, it does not kink forwards and inwards towards the engine after the point where it is cable-tied to the throttle body. It follows the vent hose for a few cms instead. So, it can't rub on the engine where yours has the bright spot.

It would be interesting to know when this routing was changed.

Cheers,
Peter
2009 R1200R
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deilenberger
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Re: Something to watch for..

Post by deilenberger »

Peter1200r wrote:Don,
Just went out to the garage to look at my June 09 build R1200R. That harness is routed slightly differently on mine. Unlike yours, it does not kink forwards and inwards towards the engine after the point where it is cable-tied to the throttle body. It follows the vent hose for a few cms instead. So, it can't rub on the engine where yours has the bright spot.

It would be interesting to know when this routing was changed.

Cheers,
Peter
Peter thanks!

I can only imagine the reason for the kink in mine is - the cable is too long, and that's where they took up the extra length. If you look at it - by moving it on the throttle body I should be able to take the kink out entirely, but then it's going to end up with dangling ends where the cable splits off to go to different sensors. If you have a chance to take a picture that would be much appreciated..

Thanks again!
Don Eilenberger - NJ Shore
2012 R1200R - I love this bike!
gezerbike
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Re: Something to watch for..

Post by gezerbike »

Just looked at my 08 ( mfg date 9-07 ) and mine is fine, with no excess wiring. I wonder if you pulled your seat, you might be able to bring some of that excess back under the seat. On another note, why do you think your problems start after a 100 or so miles ? Could it be that after several hours of running time, the heat starts to softern up the wiring enough that it becomes more flexible and then it starts to rub ?
Mike

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deilenberger
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Re: Something to watch for..

Post by deilenberger »

gezerbike wrote:Just looked at my 08 ( mfg date 9-07 ) and mine is fine, with no excess wiring. I wonder if you pulled your seat, you might be able to bring some of that excess back under the seat. On another note, why do you think your problems start after a 100 or so miles ? Could it be that after several hours of running time, the heat starts to softern up the wiring enough that it becomes more flexible and then it starts to rub ?
The problem restarts after disconnecting and reconnecting the O2 sensor connection. My theory is - the disconnect/reconnect moved it out of hard contact just enough so it wasn't grounding the signal, then as the bike is used - either heat or vibration or both end up moving it back so it grounds out again.

Did ~95 miles with it today - and it was idling just as nice as could be when I got back to my garage. Plus the improved low RPM response makes it SO nice to ride (and the reduced higher RPM vibes certainly didn't hurt at all..) I could power out of 20MPH in 3rd gear if I wanted to - no hesitation, just makes a nice grunty noise and does it. I wouldn't make a habit of it, but it did add flexibility to the engine response what was missing before.

Oh - to answer your question. Dunno. The wiring sort of disappears ahead of the airbox plenum somehow and I'd guess isn't easily seen from the seat opening. Have to take a look. I might drag down the spare harness I have and see how that one was done, since it's of the same vintage as the harness on the bike.
Don Eilenberger - NJ Shore
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Re: Something to watch for..

Post by deilenberger »

Peter F was kind enough to send me a photo of his '09:

Image

Looks completely different from mine, plus it appears the later model got a cover over the starter solenoid?
Don Eilenberger - NJ Shore
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celticus
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Re: Something to watch for..

Post by celticus »

Don, Sorry I haven't replied earlier but I have been busier than I like. Anyway the wire routing on my 07 looks a lot more like Peter's than yours. My wiring harness ( right there) seems to be all visible with the crankcase hose still on the bike.

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websterize
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Re: Something to watch for..

Post by websterize »

Clearly, Don, a red 2011 R12R will solve this problem. One on each coast, no?

Image
Bill
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Re: Something to watch for..

Post by deilenberger »

Bill,

That would certainly solve it.. :)

I'll have to look at it closer next time I have the seat off, but bet the tank has to come off (and perhaps the airbox) to see where it branches into the main harness.
Don Eilenberger - NJ Shore
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Re: Something to watch for..

Post by thepeacebullgrunt »

My Idle use to be strangely unstable around 25K in Winter but I don't feel it is the same today.... for sure when the bike is cold it feel a bit weak and choppy for 2 or 3 mns but no stalling or very rarely.... specially if I keep using 76 gas and if the bike don't spend the night outdoor in Venice beach compare to Pasadena near the Valley when its dryer and warmer.

But Don ! how do you define a problematic idle ? could you post a youtube link ? a beat recording or anything..

My mechanic told me last time that one side of my engine wasn't running the same way... he fixed it but I don't know if it could be related to the Idle issue you previously described.

My Peacebull3000 (that's her name) is a 2008 with now 39K.
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Re: Something to watch for..

Post by deilenberger »

Frede,

Rough idle - could hear it miss, the transmission input shaft rattled if sitting out of gear with the clutch engaged (lever out..) Fortunately - mine is no longer doing it. It idles quite nicely now.. :) No more rattle and the mirrors don't look like they're on a HD.

Could be the same sort of thing, it's easy enough to see - just have to lay on the ground and look up at it.. :)
Don Eilenberger - NJ Shore
2012 R1200R - I love this bike!
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