Engine blown - experiences with oil?

[dicebox]

folks

I'ld like to hear about people's experience with topping up the oil on their R1200Rs.

I just did a three day trip to Ireland on the bike, and on the way home, the power cut out and the engine was making a serious knocking noise. To cut a long story short, my BMW dealer is telling me that the engine is blown and will need a complete strip and rebuild. The cause apparently is lack of oil.

I think I have done about 1500 miles on the bike since i got it in November 2010. I have regularly checked the window under the left engine casing and its appearance has never changed in terms of an oil line. No oil warning light came on, and the temperature gauge has never been higher than 1 bar over the mid line and that was in very slow traffic.

The dealer is calling BMW warranty tomorrow to see if they will pay for it, he does not sound hopeful as he claims I have not topped up the oil regularly enough.

I think, there has been no warning that the oil is low, and 1500 miles is an unreasonably short time for the bike to run so low on oil that the engine blows.

any and all opinions gratefully received.

Thanks
Brendan

[fastdogs2]

Brendan,

I have owned two Hexhead bikes, a 2005 R1200RT and the 2009 R1200R that I now ride. Both of these engines in my early ownership, with low mileage, were great consumers of oil. The RT's appetite for oil was so voracious that I carried a quart of oil with me, in case I ran low. It would consume about four ounces every 500 miles. I rode about 200 miles after the 600 mile service and it took about four ounces to bring it up to just below the top of the sight glass. The RT's oil warning light was very sensitive and it would warn me of a low oil condition, if the sight glass showed anything less than a full sight glass. BMW developed a software fix for this sensitivity and the light would warn, only if the sight glass dropped below the middle mark.

I rode the RT for five years and put about 17,0000 miles on it. The oil consumption slackened off somewhat after 12,000 miles and it it would use about two ounces every 1,000 miles, up to the time I sold it, but it still used oil.

I have never seen the oil warning light activate on the R1200R. The bike has appeared to use about two ounces every 500 miles, until about 3,000 miles and then it diminished on the usage to the point that I would check it about every third ride. I had not checked the oil for about 1,000 miles before taking it to the dealer for the 6,000 mile service and I was shocked to have the mechanic tell me that the oil was lower than it should have been. There was no warning light to alert me to that fact. Now I check it before every ride and have been surprised to discover that now, at almost 8,500 miles, it has increased its oil consumption. Last Saturday I went for a 250 mile ride and when I returned the sight glass showed almost to the halfway mark. It had been just below the top when I started the ride.

Bill

[TAG-Caver]

Mine used some oil during the breakin period, but It was never down a significant amount in only 1500 miles. At almost 18K miles I have no noticeable oil consumption. I can't imagine dropping multiple quarts of oil in such a short time, something else must be going on. I hope your dealer sticks up for you and replaces the motor or the bike.

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

I have issues here. One, I do believe the oil light on any boxer is a low pressure switch. Not an oil level switch. There is no way an oil pressure switch can tell the level between the bulls eye and top of the glass. It will only inform you that you are out of oil. Two, the proper oil level is at the center of the glass. If you fill to the top of the glass, don't be surprised if the engine blows off the excess oil through the breather/intake. Three, it is well known that a quart in 1000 miles is considered acceptable by the factory. If you're adding 4 ounces in 500 miles, this is not "voracious" by any definition. Once the engine breaks in, you can expect consumption to drop to very low levels. This might take up to 20,000 miles depending on your riding style.

To the OP, if your oil light didn't come on, you didn't run out of oil. Did you check oil level after the engine quit on you? What was the level then? Any oil showing outside the engine at that time? You do know to put the bike on the center stand for checking, right?

[ContraMoto]

I got mine with 6k miles on the clock, in Dec. 2010. I've put 2200 miles on it since and it hasn't used a drop of oil. Sure, right after a ride the oil level is at the bottom of the glass. But when I check on it an hour later, it has always been on the center dot. BTW -- San Jose BMW (where I bought it) fills bikes to the center of the glass, not the top.

[dicebox]

Bob

I've always checked the oil with the bike on the centre stand. The dealer tells me there was about a litre of oil left.

Brendan

[gibbo111]

You say the dealer said you have not topped it up regularly enough, well why would you top it up if the level is stable. It sounds as if the dealer doesnt want to be too co-operative. The way you have described it, it seems strange that it would get through that much oil over that distance. How many miles/km on your bike? Just as an aside my 2007 which I have had since it was 3600km old (now 31600km) I have never put any oil between changes.4lt of mineral goes in at the change and its gets to the middle of the glass by 10000km . Keep fighting as it shouldnt have consumed that much best of luck. P. S. to check the oil after a ride leave on the side stand for a few minutes then onto the centre stand if you have one then check it Gibbo

[firstforward]

folks

I'ld like to hear about people's experience with topping up the oil on their R1200Rs.

I just did a three day trip to Ireland on the bike, and on the way home, the power cut out and the engine was making a serious knocking noise. To cut a long story short, my BMW dealer is telling me that the engine is blown and will need a complete strip and rebuild. The cause apparently is lack of oil.

I think I have done about 1500 miles on the bike since i got it in November 2010. I have regularly checked the window under the left engine casing and its appearance has never changed in terms of an oil line. No oil warning light came on, and the temperature gauge has never been higher than 1 bar over the mid line and that was in very slow traffic.

The dealer is calling BMW warranty tomorrow to see if they will pay for it, he does not sound hopeful as he claims I have not topped up the oil regularly enough.

I think, there has been no warning that the oil is low, and 1500 miles is an unreasonably short time for the bike to run so low on oil that the engine blows.

any and all opinions gratefully received.

Thanks
Brendan

Brendan,

Just trying to understand a couple of points, as you regularly check the engine oil level, what was the level as you set out on your last 3 day journey, this is not about how much oil has been used in 1,500 miles, its about how much oil was used in that last journey or the last time you checked that level, so the question is, how many miles since it was last checked, which if assuming the level seemed correct when it was last checked it begs the question was it checked correctly. When you have checked the level did you actually see an oil level line, I am asking this as on mine there is no line just a reddish colour of the oil, as the dealer has slightly over filled it ( not by much so no big issue with me) but the other side of that is, was it filled up enough last time it was serviced and what you thought was a full oil level was indeed not.


Was the dealer in question the last to service it?

[mogu83]

To the OP, if your oil light didn't come on, you didn't run out of oil. Did you check oil level after the engine quit on you? What was the level then? Any oil showing outside the engine at that time?

To Bobs questions I'd have to ask when the last work was done on the bike and by who.

Checking the oil and looking for oil outside the engine are the first things that most people would do after a loud knocking and a shut down---did you do that? If your not familiar with the operation of a motorcycle engine I would find someone who is (a friend) that can help you argue your case when you go back to the dealer. It's time to establish, it's BMWs problem not yours. Good luck.

[hjsbmw]

I think I have done about 1500 miles on the bike since i got it in November 2010. I have regularly checked the window under the left engine casing and its appearance has never changed in terms of an oil line.

This sentence is what has me confused. It sounds as if you never saw an oil line in the window, indicating a serious lack of oil. Or are you saying the oil line never changed its level? If it's the latter, where in the sight glass was the level? Please clarify.

[Catchina]

The dealer told me that the right way to check the oil level was to do it after a ride, set the bike on center stand on level ground then wait 15 minutes. Only then check the window for for the oil level. Mine is at 1500 miles and I haven't noticed much usage since first service.

[dav]

Something is not right here, you lost 3L of oil in 3 days? did you check before you left on your trip? did you check at the end of each riding day of your trip? or even look over your bike at the end of each day to see if there is any problems? why was'nt there a huge puddle of oil underneath your bike in the morning/ lunch break/ gas stops etc..?

3L of oil is a sh.t load of oil to lose without noticing it's missing.

Iam not having a go at you or anything but these are the things i do every day when i go on a trip. Iam just trying to understand how your engine lost so much oil without the owner knowing.

Hope the dealer sticks by you mate, otherwise (as you now) its going to a big bill heading your way.

[dicebox]

dav

it wasn't over three days, it's since I bought the bike in November 2010. I didn't check the bike every day of my trip, but I have been checking the level regularly between rides. the only thing I can think of is that there was initially a leak of oil onto the exhaust pipe just before where it goes into the muffler for the first few months that I had the bike. That stopped in March and there has been no visible leak since. But even that was just a few drops each ride, nowhere near 3 litres.

Checked the start mileage with dealer and it's 500 miles more than I thought, so, total mileage is 2200 rather than 1700, but still, it's the lack of warning that is pissing me off rather than the fact the engine gobbles oil. If it does, it does, but the warning systems should work.

[Don C]

It sounds to me like the dealer is nuts. You can't judge the oil level from after a destructive incident, because it probably started burning oil rapidly once things started to go bad, They would have to have known the oil level from before dice started his ride that day, and they have no way of knowing that.

[deilenberger]

I have issues here. One, I do believe the oil light on any boxer is a low pressure switch. Not an oil level switch.

Actually - most of the R1200 bikes do have an OIL LEVEL warning light - connected via a float-sensor in the engine. Only (AFAIK) the R1200R doesn't have this. They all obviously have an oil-pressure light.

There is no way an oil pressure switch can tell the level between the bulls eye and top of the glass. It will only inform you that you are out of oil. Two, the proper oil level is at the center of the glass. If you fill to the top of the glass, don't be surprised if the engine blows off the excess oil through the breather/intake.

BMW spec's to the top of the window. And even at the top of the window it is several inches below any rotating bits which might cause oil to be "blown off".. if you fill with the factory specified quantity, it will be to the top of the window.

Three, it is well known that a quart in 1000 miles is considered acceptable by the factory. If you're adding 4 ounces in 500 miles, this is not "voracious" by any definition. Once the engine breaks in, you can expect consumption to drop to very low levels. This might take up to 20,000 miles depending on your riding style.

To the OP, if your oil light didn't come on, you didn't run out of oil. Did you check oil level after the engine quit on you? What was the level then? Any oil showing outside the engine at that time? You do know to put the bike on the center stand for checking, right?

I do agree if the oil light didn't come on - chances are good that there was oil pressure which would indicate that there was oil. The ritual most people have of timing things exactly when checking oil, and circling the bike three times waving a chicken while chanting "OIL LEVEL.." seems excessive to me. If there is oil showing in the oil window (bike on centerstand) in the AM before I start the engine, I'm good to go. I do try to make a habit out of glancing at it every day before starting the engine.

My engine used some oil (about a liter) for the first 1,500 miles. It then tapered off to 3,000 miles when it basically stopped using oil. I can usually go for a full change interval without the need of adding oil (it will drop a bit in the window - but not enough for me to bother topping it off.. usually at about 1/2 way down the window at 6,000 miles.) That's with 45k on the bike.

[firstforward]

dav

it wasn't over three days, it's since I bought the bike in November 2010. I didn't check the bike every day of my trip, but I have been checking the level regularly between rides. the only thing I can think of is that there was initially a leak of oil onto the exhaust pipe just before where it goes into the muffler for the first few months that I had the bike. That stopped in March and there has been no visible leak since. But even that was just a few drops each ride, nowhere near 3 litres.

Checked the start mileage with dealer and it's 500 miles more than I thought, so, total mileage is 2200 rather than 1700, but still, it's the lack of warning that is pissing me off rather than the fact the engine gobbles oil. If it does, it does, but the warning systems should work.

I used to own a Ford Dealership many years ago and we had a Rover car come in with a buggered engine. My mechanics replaced the engine with a manufacturers reconditioned engine and the mechanic made a mistake in assembling the engine, he did not bolt in place the dipstick so when he sent the car out on checking the oil level the dip stick went further down than it should giving a reading of a full engine of oil. The reality was it only had about 1 litre of oil ( if that). After 700 miles the owner came in complaining of a knocking engine and slight flickering of his oil pressure light ONLY on idle. On inspection the oil was very black and burned, we had to replace his engine at our expense. Anyway my point is there is no way of knowing the level of oil whilst in motion on an R1200R like that car, it is for that reason I always fit a good old fashioned oil pressure gauge in my cars and bikes.

That said I still don't understand something here, surely it was over three days or less that you used/lost 3 litres of oil because you check it regularly right? Unless it was not checked before you set out or whilst you were on the 3 day trip. There is only one warning system and that is the site glass, unless a leak springs within a journey, your only hope is a hotter engine reading or oil pressure light, as the oil pressure light never came on the question is should it have, is one litre enough to be picked up by the oil pump, if so you might have a mitigating point about the consequential damage because of a faulty oil pressure switch, if not I guess you are on your own.

[Acpantera]

I changed the oil @ 500 miles with castrol 20w50 non synthetic, then @ 3000 miles with the same oil.Then @ 6000 miles I switched to Mobil 1 15w50 and renewed it every 3000 miles. At 20,000 miles I took a 2,100 mile trip around the great lakes(minus michigan) and never had to top it off. Last year I took a 1500 mile trip to the indy moto gp in 90 to 100 degree heat and still didn't have to top off. Now at 30,000+ miles I can ride 3000 miles and the oil level stays above the low mark at change time.

[r12gecko]

Maybe the plug is missing from his bike?

[dicebox]

surely I'ld have noticed leaks everywhere wouldn't I. The story moves on, BMW warranty have said it's not a warranty issue, the level of oil use sounds OK to them. missing the point rather, it's not the oil use that's the issue, it's the total failure of the bike to warn me that my engine was so hot it was about to blow.

so, I now have to take it to Customer Services - a contradiction in terms for most companies, so I'll let you know how that pans out.

Brendan

[celticus]

breather/intake.

BMW spec's to the top of the window. And even at the top of the window it is several inches below any rotating bits which might cause oil to be "blown off".. if you fill with the factory specified quantity, it will be to the top of the window.

I didn't know this. I thought ( for the last 4 and a half years ) that the proper level you wanted to acheive was at the center line. I have even drained oil out when I got it too high like at the top of the glass.

Mark