2011 comfort seat fits 2007 bike

[Caroanbill]

There a a few threads on comforst seats - but one for the 2006-2010 R12Rs are getting on a bit, so -
I have fitted a new comfort seat from a 2011 R12R to a 2007 R12R ...

That is to say, I've tested fit on a pre-2011 R12R and ordered one for my 2007. Why? Because I can't get any sense out of BMW Australia, nor could my dealer, on the US part number for the "Comfort Saddle 800mm" PN ..... 1957. The PN does show here, and although the dealer can see it, no one coulo say for certain itwas the right one (and the line drawing is of the standard seat). BMW Australia and dealer stocking and price / return policies meant I could be stuck with a seat that might not actually be the right one - a pox on that. Plus it had to come from the fatherland. The more we went around this problem the more it became clear I had to take a $700 risk with no-one else - no-one - accepting any care or responsibility. I'd say it was like Fawlty Towers, but these guys are otherwise good and the other Sydney dealer (also a harley dealer) is a truly pathetic joke: you cannot get any service there.

Anyhow, I kept asking whether the new seat would fit my bike .. "dunno" .. until finally a young, keen sales guy took it upon himself to find out. We took the new stock seat off a 2011 and put it on a 2009 (or something - same as my 2007, anyway). It is called a comfort bench 800mm.. at least it is here ... Bit of a wiggle, but it fitted: went on, came off, all OK. And Ms Delectable and I got to test it, unlike ordering one - which would have been a gamble. The advantage of the 2011 seat is that it doesn't need the strap - I have the rack and thus pillion grab rails, so I neither need nor want the seat strap.

So I ordered the part number on the seat I'd sat on. Certainty all around, and because it's current stock in Australia I get 5 days to return it (for a re-stocking fee)

Price? Exhorbitant, but my guys did a nice deal.

I'll post when I've established it does indeed fit.

[Caroanbill]

oh, yeah - and it means I haven't gone a whoel calendar year without at least one new farkle... PHEW

- I was feeling guilty for neglectng it, especially after I just put new shocks on my red Vespa.

[mikes]

So here's one that I got directly from BMW Germany. It seems that the Low seat 06 to 11 and the Extra Low seat on the lower factory suspension model the same but different part number. At least Germany put me out of my pain because the dealer/parts guys were driving me insane.


Thank you for your e-mail.

Extra low seat (part no. 52 53 7 713 114), which is part of low suspension, and low seat
(part no. 52 53 7 698 379) have been offered for ‘06 and ’11 BMW R 1200 R. There are no
differences.

Kind Regards,
BMW Motorrad Direct

------------------------------------------------------------------
Bayerische Motoren Werke Aktiengesellschaft
Board of Management: Norbert Reithofer, Chairman,
Frank-Peter Arndt, Ernst Baumann, Herbert Diess,
Klaus Draeger, Friedrich Eichiner, Ian Robertson
Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Joachim Milberg
Registered in: Munich HRB 42243
-------------------------------------------------------------------

[Don C]

I think that they are wrong. There are two low bench seats that are the same height, but one positions the rider further forward. I've owned one of each. I tried the extra low seat for one ride, my impression was that by placing the rider forward relative to the pegs, it makes the bike feel more sporty. But it also caused my knees to bend too tightly. It's amazing to me how many different seats are available for this bike, six different seats just from BMW, and also plenty of aftermarket choices.

[mikes]

Don - thanks for your post. Wouldn't surprise me one bit because over last 12 years of owning BMW motorcycles the only way to find out is asking owners not dealers or the factory. What I am trying to work out what is the lowest seat in terms of height (I want to be flat footed). I am ready to place an order for a new R12R classic and have given up trying to work out the lowest option. I am going to get the standard height frame and order a Extra low seat and see how I go. If you have any thought it would be most welcome.

Cheers

[Don C]

My thoughts are that being able to reach the ground easily with both feet is not important. I thought that this was very important in the past, but as I have aged, it's more important now to un bend my knees a bit. As long as I can get a foot down on one side or the other I'm happy. If you post your dimensions maybe we can help more.

[abambach]

Hi, I lived in Sydney for 4 years, did you try Fraser BMW near homebush? They are awesome and very knowledgeable.

[mikes]

I have been several times but never stuck anyone that really could help me apart from reading the brochures for me. I certain they are okay but I just didn't strike the right person. Lots of good people at Procycles but most have left the company. The only real good guy there is the service manager (and owner) Anthony but he is always under the pump for time.

BTW - are you still if oz?

Cheers

[michelsmith]

A better option is to take your seat to a local custom upholstery shop. some specialize in bike seats. They will make a seat that fits you perfectly and for less than those expensive mail order seats. I know this because I have done it.

[mikes]

Another email from BMW Germany re Extra low Seat and Low Seat. This is what I recived last night which is different to what they said a couple of days ago but it makes sense:
_____
Thank you for your e-mail.


Extra low and low seat are not the same. Extra low and low seat have the same height.
But extra low seat is less wide, to get a lower step length.

Both seats have been available for, respectively are fitting on ’06 and ’11 BMW R 1200
R.
---------

Finally, given all the stuffing around I did on my current bike (wilbers) and the ride quality its just not worth the hassell. Although with the info that Don provided I am much more informed and if I was temped to rework the suspension on the new bike I will take Don advice/comments because he has the situation sorted.
Cheers

[Caroanbill]

Hi, I lived in Sydney for 4 years, did you try Fraser BMW near homebush? They are awesome and very knowledgeable.

Words fail me when I try to describe the absolute disdain Frasers have for customers. They had a decent parts guy - he's now at Procycle.

This place is infamous for the worst service in Sydney even though it's the most flamboyant, upmarket set-up. Performance so bad has to come from the top - mamagemet is non-existent, obviously. strangely, Fraser's other places seem to have passable service - go figure.

Still, I tried recently - and the experience was sufficient that I'll nevr bother them again, even though theyre my closest dealer.

I actually went in there after ordering the seat, to look at women's gear. We were there 30 mins, and during that time the 8 (yes, eight - at midday on a Friday) stolidly refused to even meet eye contact, much less smile or offer to assist. Staff actualy looked away as they walked past - not just us, but other customers as well ... yet they were havng long social chats with other staff. I even sat on a K1600GT to see if I could get attention - none. A 659 Monster (special learners bike for Australia). As I left, I approached two smug Ducati salesguys to ask if they would consider serving me - they were nonplussed at being asked to actually do their job, and tried being smartarses (not a good look when you're dumb as a dogt*rd, pal). I told them they were p*ssweak and left.

Before anyone asks - yep, I emailed the management and pointed them to a post I'd put on an Aussie board. I don't ask fro a relpy because I've washed my hands of them.

My advice to all Sydney Bmw riders is - avoid Frasers altogether unless you like being insulted.

end of rant

[Caroanbill]

Update: the 2011 comfort seat (800mm) is now on my 2007 bike and fits exactly. Hooray! Procycles got it in on a deposit (I chose 50%, they'd have taken 20%) and would have sent it back to BMW Australia if I returned it within 5 working days ( BMW would charge a restocking fee).

This new seat does push my thighs out a bit more than the slimmer low seat, but I can still flat foot the bike. With a bit more use the foam on the edge will soften - there's a slightly hard feel there now. The main section feels firm, but is easily more comfy that the standard seat + airhawk. I may put the airhawk on for trips, just for the luxury!! The 'step' behind me to the pillion section is in a better spot than teh standard low seat - it feels 'right' to me.

Ms Delectable reports that the pillion seat is a quantum leap over the 2007 standard low seat, as expected. In fact, it's sufficiently high compared to the standard low seat that she no longer wants lowered footpegs ... oh, and she can see a bit more over the top of my helmet ( I am short).

Happy!

PS I also got the alloy oil filler cap - I couldn't get the plastic one out anymore, and I was low on oil as a result. Procycles' workshop (on a Saturday) took it in, pulled the old one (meant loosening my Wunderlich leg shields), topped the oil up, and put in the new one - even put the new torx bolt into my toolkit. No charge, while I had a complimentary coffee. Thanks, folks!

[Caroanbill]

... given all the stuffing around I did on my current bike (wilbers) and the ride quality its just not worth the hassell. Although with the info that Don provided I am much more informed and if I was temped to rework the suspension on the new bike I will take Don advice/comments because he has the situation sorted.
Cheers

Mike - might be worth trying Andy at St Peters.

As I discovered, BMW Australia will take parts back within a week for a restocking fee. That means you can send a seat back if it's not quite what you want - though you will be up for a restocking fee. Andy wanted deposit from me - I gave it. My experience at Frasers when Andy was there was they wanted 100% deposit, no returns (not Andy's policy, management's). It all gets more fraught if you want a part from Germany because BMW won't take a return, so the dealer has to ask for full payment.

St Peters also have quite a few R12R's on the floor - new and used. I was able to test the new 2011 seat out on an earlier bike, and order that way. Didn't see the factory lowered bike on the floor, though ..

no R12Rs at frasers, not that I'd deal with the ever again.

[mogu83]

I just can't understand the attitude of some motorcycle dealers (all brands not just BMW). They are selling a product that 99% of their customers don't really need to carry on with their lives. Most of the accessories they sell are over priced and they usually don't have the actual accessory on hand, they have to order it. They charge top dollar for labor, even though the person doing routine maintenance on your machine is usually some young guy just out of trade school and not the master mechanic that would be worth the top fee. And then they get upset when a customer buys his accessories on line or gets an independent mechanic to do the service work. With the internet I can usually get parts and accessories faster by ordering them and using just regular post than if I went to the dealer, the money I would spend for postage is usually cheaper than the cost of fuel to ride to the dealer. If you find a good dealer, support him because he's something rare now days.
It's not just BMW, I know a lot of Harley guys and the stories they have to tell border on the unbelievable. The Guzzi guys tell dealer stories that just can't be true, but they swear they are.

Good news for you Bill, is you seem to have your problem resolved and your ready to start YOUR riding season while us people on the upper part of the globe are dragging out electric clothing or cowering back into our caves to wait out the ugly season.

[Caroanbill]

Good news for you Bill, is you seem to have your problem resolved and your ready to start YOUR riding season while us people on the upper part of the globe are dragging out electric clothing or cowering back into our caves to wait out the ugly season.

Upper? Obviously a frame of reference thing
I thought the 'top' continent is Antartica, and we're merely the closest major land mass to the top (oops, sorry NZ and Terra del Fuego) ...

As for service - it's as though bike dealers have finally caught up with running a business, but haven't yet made the breakthrough that the business is retail and - as you point out incisively - retail on items their customers don't need.

The vibe in Fraser's is that customers are an interruption to running the business, and the staff resolve that tnesion by ignoring, patronising, deceiving or insulting customers (I have direct experience of all four).

The frank position from "my" dealer (Procycles) is that they have to stay profitable, and while they do do good service, they haven't really identified, much less resolved, the tension between customer focus and retaining profitability. I want them to remain profitable, I'm glad they're frank about it - and I also want good service (which I'm happy to pay for). Thankfully, I do get it - even if I sometimes have to be forthright (eg the new sales guy told me to move my bike - now he realises I'm a long term customer he asks if he can move my bike).

Anyway, it's great to finally have the seat thing sorted - solo, the standard low seat was OK with an Airhawk. The way Ms Delectable had to perch and hold on it was giving her back, neck and arm pain: the comfort seat fixes that. Pity we can't easily get Sargent or the fab seats you folk on the more populous undersde of the planet can get, and Corbin is, well, Corbin. So even though BMW doesn't re-price for currency (ours has appreciated 75% against the Euro in a year), I've got a fix.

[mikes]

Guys I am very careful what I say in an email, chat or text but I can honestly say I simply can't understand BMW and their marketing strategy. To be brutally honest I have given up expecting any sales guys selling BMW bikes would know their product. There was a sales guy at Procycles a few years back and a parts guy turned bikes salesman that could tell you all about the product and what they didn't they would find out instead giving some crap answer. There is a dealership in Melbourne that have an great service and guess what they carry stock (could be owned by BMW). As for Frasers all I can say is nice showroom but unless you are after a HD or Ducati then your better off going to some other dealer or better still talk to a brick wall. Frasers didn't have floor stock of R12R or R12R classic. According to one of their top sales guys "Mate, RRRzzzzzzzzz are sold as soon as they hit the floor so better put an order in now and I can get you one in 4 to 5 months".....This about sums them up.......useless

For NSW people the best place to lay down your cash is Procycles. They are not perfect but their owner and acting service manger guy is one of the true gentlement of the trade and knows the value of a happy customer. He openly admits the company struggles to find good sales guys and at least you don't feel like somone is peeing on your back and try to tell you its raining.
Thanks my rant for good measure and sorry if I have offened anyone but don't care.

[Caroanbill]

There was a sales guy at Procycles a few years back and a parts guy turned bikes salesman that could tell you all about the product and what they didn't they would find out instead giving some crap answer ... Thanks my rant for good measure and sorry if I have offened anyone but don't care.

Mikes - I bought my R12R from that guy. He was brilliant - fitted my Wilbers, hugger, etc and arranged my colour-coded panniers, and stil gave me a great price all around. Easily the best MC salesman I've ever dealt with. Our owner mate (who I also like and now get on well with) pissed him off so much he left to do a customer focus revoluton in an inner west Subaru workshop. I had frank words about that which actually resulted in me getting to know - and getting on with - Anthony. I think a few older custromers also talked to Anthony, and it made a BIG difference: he now sees loyalty where previous he saw demands, and he realises (coz he's told me as much) that long term customers are his best advertisement.

As for BMW Australia - they are incredibley patchy. They'll spend money and take risk on a demo fleet, but take the reverse position on parts and clothing. BMW is best placed to bear risk and take opportunity, but they seem to pass on risk to dealsr without adequate reward. Consequently, dealers avoid risk: an understandable decision, given there's not much upside in parts and clothing for them. But as you note, it results in a poor customer experience which then hurts the BMW brand. You'd think the marketing department would get it through the cost controllers that having stock actually sells stock - and not having stock, doesn't ... arggggghhh!!!

[mikes]

Caroanbill - you are spot and couldn't agree more with everything you said. If I recall John was the first sales guy (under old ownership) and what a good straight shooter who know his product insdie-out. My second bike I dealt with Pete who I didn't like much at first but boy was i wrong he turned out to just fantastic and could do enough even after I bought the bike. I believe he married the daughter of the previouse owners. he has since left. After those guys its been a bit hit and miss but I basically know what I want when I go there and talk to Anthony re info or technical stuff. Re BMW they put so much effort into car sales and dealerships it just doesn't add up why the are so patchy but like you say taking a punt on something not in stock is really zero risk and Dealer will usually refund if you are not happy. However re clothing it nice to be able to try stuff on in your own size before ordering. Why wouldn't BMW have fully stocked clothing on dispaly (all sizes , colours and styles) at selected dealers on consigment? Its not a new concept but I guess its all too hard. I have done this for years in my business and it worked for me. Getting dealers to hold your whole product line is not going to happy unless the product is so fast moving which BMW clothing wouldn't be.
Cheers

[Caroanbill]

Update on the 2011 800mm comfort seat on my 2007. these things take a while coz I use my Vespas around town and the R12R has to wait for a bigger run

Just me. A 2500km touring weekend on bumpy backroads give it the thumbs-up. I'm keeping the Airhawk on but doubt I'll go back to the original low seat, excpet where I know I'll be on tricky campsites or gravel roads. It's a small but signifcant comfort improvement for me as solo rider: I think it's added 100km (an hour) to the comfort time on seat before the inevitable aches set in. I can still sit "up" on the lip to stretch legs and the absence of the strap makes that simpler, while the better padding and height makes the stretch more effective.

Two-up. A 400km day and no complaints. Ms Delectable says it's removed the pain of riding the R12R because the seat holds her easily, so she no longer slips forward on bumps, downhill, or under brakes. There is no need to hold herself back with hands and feet, so she's much more relaxed and the ride is now a pleasure wher it was once a bit of a chore.

Seat comes on and off quite easily - it is stil breakking in and does need a frim ahd at times, but it's not any sort of a problem.

All up, it's the business - and so much better because it's kept in stock so returns / risk were not an issue.