New battery drains with heated grips on high

[kemagill]

I have a 2004 R1150R, with stock heated grips. Only about 14k miles on it. I had a couple of instances of a dead (stock) battery after riding for a while with the heated grips, usually after rides of an hour or more.

I replaced it with an Odyssey PC680. It's been starting and running great, and I've had no issues using the heated grips on LOW on 30 minute commutes. This morning I took a 10 minute ride with the grips on HIGH. A few minutes after arriving and turning off the ignition/removing the key I needed to move the bike and it wouldn't start. It would crank and try to turn over, but acted like it just didn't have enough juice to get it started. I let it sit for about 3 hours, then came out and it started. These are very similar symptoms to what I had with the stock battery when using the heated grips. While it started this morning, I'm worried that running the grips on high for any length of time may leave me needing a jump next time.

I have no other actively-running accessories. The bike had a factory installed BMW GPS, which I removed, and the power cable is still wired in to the bike. The GPS power cable is zip-tied to my handlebar with the connector end electrical taped off.

Any idea of what could cause stock heated grips (on high) to drain a new battery faster than it can recharge? An alternator that's starting to go bad perhaps? Since I took care of the obvious first step already (battery), I'm wondering what I should check next.

Thanks!

[CycleRob]

Remove the front belt cover and check the alternator belt. Then start the engine and see if it is turning the alternator pulley. Not sure if the 2004 model has an over-run clutch within the alternator pulley, but if it is making grinding/scraping noises or it is barely turning, that's it. Failure with only 14K miles is possible with hidden heavy corrosion damage of the one-way clutch.

Check the engine running voltage between the jump start terminal (Or top starter terminal behind cover) and a good ground.

Does the red charge light illuminate when you turn the key on?

If there was anything wrong with the heated grips circuit, it would blow the fuse, so their usage causing a drained battery seems coincidental, unless there is a low output problem with the alternator. Has there been any substantial arcing/sparking "accidents" during a maintenance operation? That could damage the built-in solid state voltage regulator (of ANY similarly designed car/truck alternator). The OilHead alternator, BTW, is an extremely reliable premium quality component with a stellar reliability record (unless some dufuss jump starts the bike with a + and - polarity mix-up). Every motorcycle should have an alternator that good and powerful.

[f4tweet]

On my '83 R100RT, I had to be about 4000 rpm for a prolonged time with the heated grips on, or it would do the same thing. I came back to LA from Phoenix at night once with the grips on and had no problem starting the bike when I got home.
I ran my 02 R1150R about 30 miles to my son's house with the grips on high. I returned home with the grips on high. My bike would barely start the next morning. I would think you would have to ride for an hour or more on high, not to
run the battery down. My .02.

[AZBMWRIDER]

How many watts do the heated grips use ??

Isn't the alternator in the 600 - 700 watt output area .

I don't think you have a battery issue, if you replaced the battery with an upgraded version, the Odyssey PC 680 and the problem still exists .

I use the grips on high on my '02 R for 20-30 minutes and have never had a problem with battery charge issues .

[towerworker]

I run my grips on high constantly in cool weather. I've never had them cause a low battery issue. Most of my running traditionally has been short trips-less than an hour. Always starts fine. Mine is an '04 w/abs.

[kemagill]

Thanks everyone. I feel that my bike should be able to run the heated grips on high pretty much any time I want without draining the battery. I agree that it's not likely a battery issue. The grips are just what's exposing some other electrical problem. If I had extra running lights or some other accessories I'd probably see the same problem.

CycleRob, I hope to get time this week to pull the alternator cover and give that a look. I'll take my multimeter with me this week and start checking the voltage at different times with and without using the heated grips, with the bike running and with it off. As far as I know it's never been jump-started with reverse polarity, unless a previous owner did it. It's pretty obvious with the giant plus sign on the jumper terminal! I did some spark plug and ignition coil work a couple years ago, so it's possible I somehow damaged the voltage regulator in the process. Although nothing out of the ordinary happened wrt sparking/arcing while I was doing the work.

I'll let y'all know if I find anything.

[peels]

iv'e been running my grips the last few weeks on high in the morning every day. no issues yet.

my commute, the bike is only running for 15 minutes.

i would throw a meter on it and see if its charging right.

[kemagill]

I haven't been able to take a ride and get meter readings post-ride yet. But here's where I'm at in the garage:

Red charge light on the instrument panel comes on when I turn the key on. Goes off once the engine is started.

Alternator belt/pulley are moving freely with no noise, at idle and when I rev.

Some voltage readings, taken from the + charge post on the engine case and the ground post on the left cylinder, fresh off an overnight trickle charge:
Key on, no engine, low beams, grips off: 12.15V
Idle, 1400-1500rpm, low beams, grips off: 13.97V
Idle, 1100rpm, low beams, grips off: 13.82V
Idle, 1100rpm, high beams, grips on high: 13.65V-13.75V bouncing
Key on, no engine, low beams, grips off: 12.91V (after 3-4 minutes of idle)

I'm getting hooked up with a spot at work I can plug in a trickle charger if needed, so I'm hoping to get some half hour test rides in with the grips on. I'll be able to get a few good readings without having to deal with a jump to get home.

[vitaminC]

For another data point, on my '04 I can run the heated grips and my aux lights for my short 10mi commute and have no issues starting the bike later. My alt light will occasionally stay on when I first start the bike until I give it a little gas and then I don't see it again.

Best of luck in tracking down and solving your issue!

[CycleRob]

Idle, 1100rpm, high beams, grips on high: 13.65V-13.75V bouncing

Those "load test" readings tell me your alternator is AOK. Why? Because in addition to the high beam and grips on Hi, at an idle, it is charging an almost new battery that likely has been run down (Key on, no engine, low beams, grips off: 12.15V) by a high resistance key off power drain. A lower resistance drain would generate heat, melt wiring and prolly smoke! I'd start with an Ammeter in-series test of a disconnected battery terminal (use 10A scale) then an Ohmmeter test of the open circuit unplugged ignition switch terminals in the OFF position. Another most likely villain would be crushed or broken wires in the front main harnesses.

A high resistance "short" in the OFF position is possible on a frequently used 7+ year old ignition switch when the sliding brass terminal buttons and pads impart tiny wear particles of themselves in the resident lubricating grease that then carries the low drain power across the insulating plastic housing to the bike's hungry circuits. Your battery then slowly wears down in a day or so.

Also possible is a sticking or incorrectly wired supplemental lighting relay. Yes, somebody wired a lighting relay so the lights were relay coil powered to their OFF position, not realizing the relay coil was drawing power with the key off.

The Ammeter and Ohmmeter tests will tell you a lot.

[bransan]

Idle, 1100rpm, high beams, grips on high: 13.65V-13.75V bouncing

Those "load test" readings tell me your alternator is AOK. Why? Because in addition to the high beam and grips on Hi, at an idle, it is charging an almost new battery that likely has been run down (Key on, no engine, low beams, grips off: 12.15V) by a high resistance key off power drain. A lower resistance drain would generate heat, melt wiring and prolly smoke! I'd start with an Ammeter in-series test of a disconnected battery terminal (use 10A scale) then an Ohmmeter test of the open circuit unplugged ignition switch terminals in the OFF position. Another most likely villain would be crushed or broken wires in the front main harnesses.

A high resistance "short" in the OFF position is possible on a frequently used 7+ year old ignition switch when the sliding brass terminal buttons and pads impart tiny wear particles of themselves in the resident lubricating grease that then carries the low drain power across the insulating plastic housing to the bike's hungry circuits. Your battery then slowly wears down in a day or so.

Also possible is a sticking or incorrectly wired supplemental lighting relay. Yes, somebody wired a lighting relay so the lights were relay coil powered to their OFF position, not realizing the relay coil was drawing power with the key off.



melt wiring and prolly smoke! What? Is prolly a word? Did You mean, probably?
Come on people, We are talking about a sophisticated piece of machinery here.


I would also be checking the wiring harness for over tightened ty-wrap's. The easiest way to see if you have a draw when the ignition is off, is to remove the battery cable and place a test light in series with the lead. One end to the cable the other end to the battery, if the test light lights you have a draw. Now remove fuses one at a time until the load goes away. Aside from the clock, there should be no loads after the computer has gone to sleep.
The Ammeter and Ohmmeter tests will tell you a lot.

[peels]

wanted to add to this. the last few really cold mornings, I have left the warmers on high...so I turn key on put on my gloves, shut garage door...starter has one or two sluggish turns...then takes off fine.


probably a smart idea to shut them off Im guessing? I've started doing that regardless. is that system on when key is on but engine not running?, then stealing power from the starter?

i didnt bother with meters or anything yet.

[BoxerSteve]

The owners manual for my GS says if you run the heated grips on high but engine revs are low, the battery could go flat. I think f4tweet is on to something. In addition to the other suggestions, keep the revs up for better battery charging. These motors like to run at 3K RPM or more.

[kemagill]

Thanks for all the comments.

I've been riding and collecting some data. I don't have an ammeter that can handle more than 200mA, so haven't been able to do a current test, but I may give the test bulb a try. I'm not sure I have a key-off battery drain though. My battery problems have only occurred after a ride with the grips on high, never due to just sitting. Plus, see the numbers below.

Here's my average voltage readings, taken before and after rides with and without the grips, as well as after a few days of sitting (with no trickle charge):

• Key off: 12.79 - 12.93V, didn't matter whether the grip switch had been left on or off
• Key on, engine off: 12.0 - 12.5V, higher just after killing the engine, with the voltage slowly dropping down toward 12.00. grips on/off make very little difference
• Idle, 1100rpm: 13.3 - 13.8V, bouncing a little as RPMs bounce, grips on/off make very little difference
• Rev to >2000rpm: ~14.0V, grips on/off make no difference

I let the bike sit for 4 days with no trickle charge and the battery voltage was no different than when it sits for 8 hours. The battery seems to be holding its charge when it sits, which makes me think there may not be a current leak or psuedo-short.

Looking back, my problems when I had the original battery were probably due to the battery needing replacement. Although that battery only gave me problems when I had been on rides with the grips on high (even a two-hour ride at >3k rpms). With the new Odyssey, the only time I've had a problem was when I took a 10 minute ride, on city streets (low revs), with the grips on high (it was also damp and starting to rain). Even then, the bike started after I let it sit for a bit. So I may not have a problem. I may just need to avoid the grips on high if I'm not going on a ride where I can open it up.

I'm gonna keep taking some measurements and keep my eye on it. I'm also going to cut the too-tight cable ties (never did it when I got the bike) and check the wires. I'll also try to do a key-off current draw test just to be sure.

[towerworker]

wanted to add to this. the last few really cold mornings, I have left the warmers on high...so I turn key on put on my gloves, shut garage door...starter has one or two sluggish turns...then takes off fine.


probably a smart idea to shut them off Im guessing? I've started doing that regardless. is that system on when key is on but engine not running?, then stealing power from the starter?

i didnt bother with meters or anything yet.

When you hit the "starter button" every other bike system (lights, horn, heated anything) shuts down until the motor starts-- Unless you have something hard wired to your battery like possibly auxiliary lights or thermostat for heated gear. But anything installed by BMW (in the factory) is out of the circuit while the motor is cranking. That's so you have all available power to turn over and start that high compression twin.

fwiw---in the winter (now) my heated grip switch is on high(stays there--I can't feel low due to damaged nerves in my hands) and I run a heated jacket liner too. I've got a 2 year old Odyssey battery. And I use a Battery Tender Jr most every night. When I go out on the bike (almost every day) I generally take the long way to anywhere so it's gets run usually at least an hour. I am no battery authority but all I have ever read leads me to believe that a good quality battery maintainer (like the Battery Tender series) will help me get the most useful life out of my battery. Not just simply a trickle charger, but a device that senses the battery type and state of charge and "intelligently" maintains that battery.

[peels]

wanted to add to this. the last few really cold mornings, I have left the warmers on high...so I turn key on put on my gloves, shut garage door...starter has one or two sluggish turns...then takes off fine.


probably a smart idea to shut them off Im guessing? I've started doing that regardless. is that system on when key is on but engine not running?, then stealing power from the starter?

i didnt bother with meters or anything yet.

When you hit the "starter button" every other bike system (lights, horn, heated anything) shuts down until the motor starts-- Unless you have something hard wired to your battery like possibly auxiliary lights or thermostat for heated gear. But anything installed by BMW (in the factory) is out of the circuit while the motor is cranking. That's so you have all available power to turn over and start that high compression twin.

fwiw---in the winter (now) my heated grip switch is on high(stays there--I can't feel low due to damaged nerves in my hands) and I run a heated jacket liner too. I've got a 2 year old Odyssey battery. And I use a Battery Tender Jr most every night. When I go out on the bike (almost every day) I generally take the long way to anywhere so it's gets run usually at least an hour. I am no battery authority but all I have ever read leads me to believe that a good quality battery maintainer (like the Battery Tender series) will help me get the most useful life out of my battery. Not just simply a trickle charger, but a device that senses the battery type and state of charge and "intelligently" maintains that battery.

yep, that dawned on me as I was leaving work yesterday, everything shut off when starting......(in the dark, which Im not a fan of) where did the year go?