Riding Technique Question

[Jimfromdover]

I'm a relatively new rider (been riding for five years and about 15,000 miles), ride a '99 R1100R and have a question about using the rear brake, throttle and clutch simultaneously. In other words, giving the bike some throttle while letting the clutch out, but at the same time applying the rear brake to dampen the throttle and clutch a little. My question is, am I doing this too often? Maybe it's because my bike feels very torquey to me (hard for me to compare since its about the only bike I've ridden) but I find myself using the three together often when:

taking a right turn from a stop, especially if the lane is narrow and going past the centerline is possible

coming to a smooth, slow-speed stop, say at a traffic light or stop sign

Is this bad technique? Worse, am I doing harm to my clutch or rear brake?

[DJ Downunder]

Is this bad technique? Worse, am I doing harm to my clutch or rear brake?

Yes...yes...and yes....IMO

Welcome...any more questions?......

It's only my opinion but I only use my rear brake while I'm stopped and pointing up hill..to stop myself from rolling back..and I then release it when I take off.

I don't see why you would be putting the brake on as you take off..I'm sure it would lead to more clutch and brake wear.

Maybe I'm missing something here.

DJ

[chris]

Agree with DJ. Never heard of anyone using that combination of controls before. Wouldn't advise using that rear brake like that, especially not in a turn as you risk locking the rear and while that's OK in a straight line, in a turn you'll most likely end up on the ground. Stay off it.

[Boxer]

I understand your concerns...a little. But on dry pavement you can practically lay this baby over on its side in a slow sharp turn then goose it upright very easily. I've done it many times out of necessity. No need to brake as you take off into that turn, but saddle time will improve your control.

I'll say this. It's far better to strain the clutch and brake than to venture over into the other lane in a wider than needed turn. Just practice some more in parking lots.

[BigC]

I had a good friend take the motorcycle safety course and he gave me some useful tidbits from it. One of them being feathering in the rear brake during low speed maneuvers along with slipping the clutch with elevated throttle. Your using the engine like a big gyro at that point and the combination of those 3 controls assist with balance. Now that may work fine for a bike with a wet clutch as those virtually never wear out. It would not be all that great for our dry clutches I don't think although this is my first dry clutch bike so others may have better info there..

5 years is a decent amount of time to be on a bike to develop habits both good and bad. As Boxer suggested a little extra wear on certain bits of the bike is not a big deal if it keeps you safe and on your side of the yellow line

[popgazer]

Just practice some more in parking lots.

Ditto.
Plus, our brakes pretty grabby, one or two fingers are all it take to make a smooth slow down/stop.

[solitario11]

you brake and slow down B4 you hit the turn, if your going to fast for the turn then you most brake but you should ride so you dont have to brake in a turn. this will came with ridng time and practice...stop using engine braking to stop,,,,you brake are better suited for that, down shift enough to be on power but not to brake or lock the rear tire,,,or down you go!

[MikeCam]

There's nothing wrong with the technique you describe. Very common on older bikes, less on newer ones but acceptable. Watch wear and tear on both clutch and brake pads as warned above. Develop the technique so you use it less often...but it's there for you.

[OU812]

Brake pads are the cheapest part, and work the best, take it from an old racer. "you brake and slow down B4 you hit the turn, if your going to fast for the turn then you most brake but you should ride so you dont have to brake in a turn. this will came with ridng time and practice...stop using engine braking to stop,,,,you brake are better suited for that, down shift enough to be on power but not to brake or lock the rear tire,,,or down you go!" Sorry guys, but this was the only way I could get a quote in. The older I get, the faster I was!

[cworley5150]

I use this technique at parking lot speed manuevers only. I assume that is what you are describing. Other than this type of low speed riding, I hardly use the rear brake at all. I use the front for 90% of my stopping power.

You can bring the bike almost to a standstill and keep it upright by slipping the clutch a little (and I mean very little) and riding the rear brake and giving the bike moderate throttle all at the same time. I've noticed moto cops using this style of riding at low speeds too. I know a few other riders that use this technique, but not many. I don't do it as much since getting the BMW as I used to on the Jap bikes. I don't want to damage the dry clutch. It can be a useful way to move around parking lots and not have to drag your feet or keep taking them off the pegs to stop all the time. Keep your feet up, give it a little throttle and slip clutch will riding the rear brake and make full lock u-turns and short complete stops without ever taking your feet off of the pegs. It works.

[leno]

Balancing the throtal, clutch and rear brake for slow speed manovers is the correct method. This is the system taught in the UK and you will not pass your test without mastering it. But I think that you are saying that you pull away whilst draging the rear brake. That is not correct usage. You sound like an ideal candidate for a BMW training day or simmular type of thing. That would improve you bike handling skills no end and you would get a lot more pleasure from you bike.

[popgazer]

Keith Code has a couple of books where he breaks down the techniques of braking, turning etc. They are called "A twist of the wrist". I go back and read a few chapters every once in a while.

[m49512]

I learned this technique (slight throttle, feather clutch, feather rear brake) for slow speed navigation (parking lot, obstacle avoidance). Only when travelling at walking speed, and don't want to have soles of feet scraping pavement. And not for long periods of time (heat buildup). Really helps with manouverability...can almost scrape pegs with bike laid over. Have seen motorcycle cops do this in parades. But not for most road riding. There...it's 90% front brake. Oh...btw...I'm working on using less engine break when stopping. Feels like a bad habit to me...

[chris]

I'm working on using less engine break when stopping. Feels like a bad habit to me...

UK police riders use an exercise in speed control where they have to ride using only the engine braking (unless it's an emergency of course!). This trains them to anticipate the actions of other road users and look further ahead. I sometimes do it and it does make you think hard about how close you get to other vehicles. Give it a try, see how many miles you can ride without touching the brake at all.

I was also taught to feather the rear, as others have said, at low speed because using the front at low speed on a normally suspended bike destabilises the front. On a telelever it shouldn't. But dragging it from take off is a new one on me.

[Panzerleder]

Lots of good advice, here. A couple of points: practice, practice, practice in a parking lot until you can balance your bike virtually at a stop without putting your feet down. Theoretically, there is nothing wrong with what you are doing ... but it certainly shouldn't be necessary and will just get you off on the wrong foot, so to speak. Interesting article in this month's Sport Rider on Fast Freddie Spencer's riding school and the fine art of trail braking into a corner.

[Badger]

I find the front brakes on my abs equipped '04 to be very very grabby at low speeds......drop the bike grabby.......and try to remember to n e v e r use the front brakes at parking lot speeds. The brakes are linked front to back but not back to front probably for this reason.

go real slow, let your eyes slip downward , give the front brake lever a tug and down you go, ........................the brake and clutch technique you mentioned sounds like what the police do for those slow slow slaloms.

It's also impossible to use the front brake to control the bike when you are backing out of an uphill facing parking position.....mine at least is just too grabby.

mind you, when you are moving and this includes right turns at normal street speeds, there's no need to even think about the back brake.....the front with its link to the rear does all the work and works fine as long as you look where you want to go.

[joejeweler]

I had asked my BMW dealer why the previous owner had a rear tire wear down pretty good with "only" 6800 miles on it,........had it been hard acceleration on the rider's part?

Answer,......strong and regular use of engine braking does more to wear out a rear tire than just about anything else!

I'm not one to use it much myself,.......just sorta have a little engine braking happen on downshifts occasionally if i misstime the shift a little. But i'm going to be very conscience from now on and avoid it as much as i can.

you brake and slow down B4 you hit the turn, if your going to fast for the turn then you most brake but you should ride so you dont have to brake in a turn. this will came with ridng time and practice...stop using engine braking to stop,,,,you brake are better suited for that, down shift enough to be on power but not to brake or lock the rear tire,,,or down you go!

[Sunbeemer]

I got a question about what is meant here by "engine braking"; does that mean the braking you get from the engine when you just close the throttle, or does it mean the braking you get if you downshift and then slip the clutch without synching up the engine rpms to the tranny's input shaft (ie. letting the rear wheel spin up the engine, which is kinda hard on the clutch)?

[threebucks1996]

I was going to ask the same question. I back off the throttle all the time to slow down before i use any brakes and down shift with the clutch in right before a stop. I hardly ever downshift through each gear and wind the bike down so to speak. I used to ride my dirt bike that way.

[KHaynes]

Beware of a technique that develops into a consistent habit. It may not be the correct technique in all circumstances. Engine braking and rear braking combined might get you into some trouble if you don't coordinate it precisely.