It Sounded Like a GunShot...

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HiOSilver
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It Sounded Like a GunShot...

Post by HiOSilver »

It Sounded Like a GunShot when I was starting my bike today ('04 RR w/30K miles). I looked down and the throttle body on the right hand cyclinder had blown completely loose from the cyclinder. There was about a 1/2" gap between the two! :smt119 I managed to coax the throttle body just slightly back into the rubber retaining ring on the cyclinder and it was enough to get me home. It ran just fine all the way home (about 10 miles). When I got home I re-installed the throttle body correctly and then tried to figure out what caused it to backfire so violently. I attached my Twinmax and found everything perfectly balanced at maximum sensitivity.

I'm at a loss here. :-k I had ridden about 15 miles, parked at a local sporting goods store and left it for about 20 minutes. When I got out of the store and this happened the engine was still warm, but not hot.

This bike has NEVER backfired through the intake before and I don't get it. I though maybe it could be a valve sticking but that would have shown up with the Twinmax.

Anybody got any ideas? :smt102 I've stopped and started it several times now and it is behaving normally. Would you worry about it or write it off as a random occurance?
:shock:
-Chris
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Post by MikeCam »

Well, Cyclerob or Boxermania or Deano will know the answer, but it sure seems that some raw fuel was stranded in your right cylinder and the spark set it off 'out of cycle' with the valves opening.
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Post by johno »

Sounds odd, thats for sure. When were the tappets last checked?
Maybe a sticking valve, but I doubt that.
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Post by Greybeard »

If it's running fine now sounds like a valve hung open, perhaps a bit of carbon stuck to the seat?
I'm not all up on the FI though so...
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Post by R4R&R »

Wow - you blew your throttlebody off and just crammed it back on and rode home? I'm impressed!
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Post by HiOSilver »

R4R&R wrote:Wow - you blew your throttlebody off and just crammed it back on and rode home? I'm impressed!
Well, upon reflection I realized it would have taken about 5 minutes to pop the seat, get a screw driver out and fix it properly. The things you do without thinking... :oops:
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Post by Sunbeemer »

I've had a few of these backfires, but none so bad that it dislodged the throttle body! They all happened the same way yours did, bike was hot when left off for a few minutes, and then started with a bang. Sometimes the cylinder wouldn't fire for a few seconds afterward, but then it runs ok. I'm thinking about checking the injectors to see if their leaking.

I suppose under patholological conditions you could turn off the ignition just after the injector squirted fuel into the throttle body but before the plug fires, leaving the intake manifold and cylinder partially charged with an air/fuel mixture, then upon restarting, the waste-spark system ignites it during the exhaust stroke, but the gases should go out through the open exhaust valves, not backfire through the intake, right? Anybody?
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Post by HiOSilver »

I checked the valve clearances today and found all of them right were they have been for the last 12K miles: just on the lose side of the specs. I was worried that something might have changed and I had a valve too tight that caused the backfire and would be burning the valves. Nope!

The backfire happened just after I had let up on the starter button so I'm guessing that the cylinder rolled back from almost TDC just as it fired. Or maybe I'm just hoping that's it... [-o<
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Post by Boxer »

Probably hot carbon on top of the piston still glowing when you hit the starter. Use some Seafoam.
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Post by R4R&R »

Boxer wrote:Use some Seafoam.
But HiOSilver doesn't live anywhere near the ocean!!!
















I just had to say that. :wink:
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Post by boxermania »

HiOSilver...........WOW, that is definitely an eye opener, I have never heard, at least on this board, anything closely resembling your experience.

I can theorize the following taking place:

1) You did have some gasoline ignite in the vicinity of your throttle body.
2) The instantaneous force of the ignition and the gasses expanding blew the TB from it's attachment fixture.

You mention that upon your return home, the Twinmax check and the bike idle were both OK, so how did the above happened? (I see that you live in Arizona)

1) You could have had a backfire from the combustion chamber back through the intake valve. That means that the valve didn't close properly, at least during that first start. Maybe it hung uo? or had a piece of carbon lodged in the seat that got also blown out after the incident, but I find this scenario hard to believe.
2) You could have a leaking injector, further exarcerbated by the fact that you had just ridden the bike (hot bike), you live in Arizona (hot weather). The injector in question, allowed some of the fuel in the pressurized line (~ 42 psi) to leak and either remain in the TB area or even puddle in the back of the intake valve (if the valve was closed) or even puddle in the combustion chamber (if the valve was open)

Upon start up this fuel was subsquently ignited and expanded very raidly causing what you experienced......

In my mind the above explanation is the most likely scenario. I would sugest the following:

1) In warranty - Take the bike to the dealer, explain what happened and see what they come up with, (don't offer any sugestions, nor mention this response) that way you can get a perspective on A) the dealer's interest in helping you and B) the knowledge base they have in-house.

2) Out of warranty and you like to tinker with the bike - Take the bike for a ride, return home and let it sit in the sun for about 20 minutes (replicate the condition of the incident) and propceed to remove the injector from it's mounting, still connected to the fuel line. Let it hang and observe, for a few minutes to see if the fuel leaks out from the injector bottom. If so you have your answer........ 8)

3) Out of warranty, but you don't fool much with the mechanical end. Have both injectors removed, identify their possitions and have them tested. The test will reveal if you have a leaker and will also check for delivery amount and spray pattern, That should also provide the answer.

In closing, I like to mention a similar instance with the CIS or K-Jetronic injeted Prorsche 911's of 1974 to 1983 vintage that had the propensity to have fuel present in their airbox which routinely ignited and didn't have a way to scape resulting in blowing a hole in the ~ $250 airbox!!!! They came out with a kit that installed a pop off valve for when this phenomena took place and of course to save buying an airbox everytime it happened... :cry: :cry: :cry:

I don't have any other explanation for your experience and I would say that you were very lucky that no other damage took place. I will also mention that it is unlikely that the engineers designed the TB to dislodge the way it dd....that would have required far too much forward thinking.

I hope this helps............ 8)

And to MikeCam....thank you for your vote of confidence. I'm touched that you include me with such elite company...... 8) 8)
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Post by Panzerleder »

Boxermania's description of the Porsche airbox, vintage 75 to 83 is similar to my experience with my 83 Alfa GTV6 which had L-Jetronic fuel injection. On occasion, you could get a backfire on start-up that would blow the intake manifold off the engine if it wasn't really firmly attached. Happened to me twice. Scared the poo out of me each time, but didn't do any other damage. I assume the same odd-ball thing happened to you.
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Post by boxermania »

Panzerledder.......at least in the case of the Alfa it was limited to scaring the ---- out of you but no damage. You should see what it does to the Porsche airboxes.....Ouch....bling..bling..bling....... :lol:
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Post by Ivan Koloff »

Same happened to me about a year ago. Right side thottlebody blew off. Engine was hot and was shut off for about 10 min. Hit the starter button and BANG. Got the screwdiver out and in 5 min I was back on the road. I thought the body wasn't on all the way and it might have sucked some air to cause the backfire. But I do notice a small bang once in awhile under the same conditions. Always sounds like it came from the right side. I'll have the injecter looked at when I bring it in for the next service. Until then I'll just keep doing what I have been, Riding.
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Post by Sit »

So far I have not noticed or experienced anything like this with my R. I also don't know much about what anyone was writing about that may have caused it. I do know though that several of the R1150RTP's at work have experienced the same back fire that blew off the throttlebody. It was one of the reasons they looked at getting rid of the BMW, they were having major maintenance problems with the bikes and BMW was not helping. It finally boiled down to poor gas quality and dirty engines that they guys were not riding hard enough. So now they use commercial gas, not cheap city gas, and the guys ride them hard. Almost all the problems went away and I have not heard of any more throttlebody's blown off. For what thats worth.
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Post by boxermania »

These engines are very sturdy and because of the size and gobs and gobs of torque riders normally don't get them past 3K to 4K rpms. They nede to get up into the 6K rpm now and again to keep the combustion chamber form collecting excesive carbon deposits.

A touch of Seafoam or Techron every fill also helps....but is not needed if you run the bike up often. Overall the bike will run much crisper and cleaner...... 8) 8)
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Post by HiOSilver »

I haven't run Seafoam in about 5K miles so that's a good idea. And I really appreciate the folks that are suggesting it needs to be run harder! :twisted: Like I needed and excuse!

I just spoke to the local dealership and they said they don't have any idea why that may have happened, but to bring it in for inspection since it's under warranty. Thanks for the suggestion Boxermania! I feel stupid that this didn't occur to me sooner. :roll:
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