Starter noise

[Dr. Strangelove]

Recently my 68k mile bike's starter occasionally will "whirr" instead of engaging the engine. I let off the starter button immediately, re try and it has always started, except for once, on that next try. No clunky or metallic noises, just a whirring as if the starter is spinning very fast with no resistance.

I have not pulled the starter, but I am thinking that the spring that engages/disengages the shaft may be very dirty, thus hindering travel.

When I pull the starter, I will look at the flywheel's teeth, but post this to see if my thinking is likely correct or if anyone has any other suggestions.

If the teeth on the flywheel are only polished/slightly burred (and not missing) and the shaft now cleaned and the bike still whirrs, I'd guess a new starter is in my future?

Is bearing grease good for the shaft?

tia John

PS Torrey was great

[chibbert]

Dr. (and Stella)
I would tend to agree that dirt and grime are inhibiting spring travel. I believe any light-weight grease would be fine for the shaft.

Good luck and keep us posted on your findings.

Chris

[boxermania]

John

Dirt is the problem, the starter gear that is projected forward to meet the flywheel is not doing so. The starter needs to be removed, the shaft where the gear slides on, along with the gear must be cleaned and very ligtly lubricated with Moly grease as excess grease will act as a dirt magnet.

While the starter is out it pays to check the condition of the flywheel teeth, not rounded at the point of engagement or broken or missing, replacing the starter is easy, not so the flywheel.

Break out the instruments and go to work.....if I remember correctly Brian had a pictorial on the whole thing.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Thanks

Maybe this weekend I will tackle this. I hope I can find moly grease somewhere

Have to do all lubes also.

what's the top speed on this scoot, btw? I mean the real one, not the speedo reading.

[chibbert]

Top Speed - I think will depend on your weight and flat, uphill, or downhill riding. I had mine at 123 indicated which equated to 116 gps speed a couple of times but I'm a bit rotund. I've had my RS to the same but it feels like I could get more out of the RS if I asked for it.

[R1150Rclean]

Thanks

Maybe this weekend I will tackle this. I hope I can find moly grease somewhere

Have to do all lubes also.

what's the top speed on this scoot, btw? I mean the real one, not the speedo reading.

BMW lists top speed as 135 mph, I have had it to 127 mph (odometer) which is 3 mph fast at "30 mph" (based on radar signs), so 124 mph but I was not tucked all the way and it was a shorter run. 130 should be doable.

[harveyrawn]

One other thought. If you haven't done so already, having the flywheel exposed is a chance to do and dirty and dirty check of clutch spline free play.

[Dr. Strangelove]

One other thought. If you haven't done so already, having the flywheel exposed is a chance to do and dirty and dirty check of clutch spline free play.

Oh, do tell how---tia

Ok, I'll come clean...126 on the gps and I was feeling the rev limiter. Deserted road into Tucumcari (NM 209), arrow srtaight, no traffic except for that rattlesnake, flat, good surface, not particularly tucked. Did not look at speedo for indicated, and saw the 126 when I stopped.

Now, I don't "have" to do that anymore, but I still refuse to grow up.

Stella! is a good girl.

[Sunbeemer]

Been to 124 on the clock, don't know what that really is, but there was more left...

I think your starter has accumulated grit and grease on the Bendix shaft preventing the pinion gear from being thrown out to engage the flywheel starter ring gear... kind of like plaque in arteries, just need to get in there and clean it out. I'd suggest a light greasing of the shaft after cleaning, and any multi-purpose grease should work.

[harveyrawn]

One other thought. If you haven't done so already, having the flywheel exposed is a chance to do and dirty and dirty check of clutch spline free play.

Oh, do tell how---tia

It's described in a couple of posts in the thread named "Cyclerob - Clutch Spline Greasing?" at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17859.

[Boxer]

Don't forget to disconnect the battery negative cable before attempting work on the starter. You can do it without disconnecting, but its highly risky behavior.

[jm1515]

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/sq ... tarter.pdf

If you haven't done this before the above link will surely be helpful.........

[boxermania]

John

There is Moly grease and Moly paste, theonly difference is the the first one has 4% Moly, the second 60% Moly. You want the second and Honda has sells it.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I pulled the starter and cleaned and greased.
FYI, in my case, I had to remove the jump lug in order to remove the cover, no big deal, but it doesn't just pop off with the lug in place.

I did disconnect the battery before hand.

It was very gunky, though the travel was better than I thought. It did tend to catch slightly, though, and that, I hope was my problem.

To Stella!'s innards...

dirty starter


and



and



on the next one see how the leading edge of the gear teeth is beveled for engagement--at least I HOPE they are supposed to look this way.



and after cleaning with Goof Off and windex, brush and terry cloth. Then smeared with the lube shown (not the paste as far as I can tell). I coated anything that looked like it could use it and the operation was very smooth and crisp afterwards.
It should be noted that the pin holding the fulcrum of the lever from the spring falls out easily. It can be lost...that would be bad news.



Connected everything back, and lastly the battery, and she started just fine, but time will tell, I suppose.

BTW, the torx bolt in back of the starter is hard to reach and needed a 3" extension to address it.

Reset the Motronic and I hope I am good to go.

I did do the dirty and dirty test of the clutch for free play and I could not get anything to move, even slightly, and I tried all sorts of ways. The teeth on the flywheel looked good also. So, I guess Stella! falls in the 95+%...woo hoo

John

[boxermania]

John

It appears you didn't remove the components for cleaning, another way to accomplish the same is to use brake cleaner and spray on the assembly. Nevertheless, I think you did a fine job.

[Boxer]

I'm happy to see you properly anesthetized Stella prior to the surgery....else there could have been shocking repercussions.

[Dr. Strangelove]

John

It appears you didn't remove the components for cleaning, another way to accomplish the same is to use brake cleaner and spray on the assembly. Nevertheless, I think you did a fine job.

Al, when the pin came out of the lever the copper cylinder within the spring extended out a lot, almost completely, as can be seen in the third picture. But no, I didn't break it down anymore than what can be seen. I did operate the mechanism on the starter proper as I cleaned it.

And, Boxer, anesthesia is a very good thing

[Dr. Strangelove]

follow up
It was real cold here last weekend and I rode Stella! for the first time in a month. On almost all starts I got the whirring sound. Cold? Not cleaned enough? Lube instead of paste?

Went to Honda and got the paste (8.95) and will take it apart again today and this time open the component parts. Need to get some brake cleaner to really clean things and see what happens

a new starter may be in my future? or a rebuild?

will report

John

[Dr. Strangelove]

Took it apart and it was still pretty clean in there and didn't really feel any binding, but it looked like the moly lube 4% had dissipated somewhat.

this time took apart the bendix spring "plunger." Looked a bit dry in there. Also, most surfaces showed some etching, sl, from oxidation.
Cleaned every surface well and then polished them with Flitz and a dremel. Things were really smooth and shiny. I polished the spring some because I could see where it rubbed on the copper cylinder. I also stretched it slightly to give it, well, more spring.

Then everything got a thin coat of the moly paste and reassembled.

Kind of chilly and wet here today, but she did start right up. Time will tell. If the starter acts up again I guess it will be time for a new one after 70k miles.

John

[CycleRob]

Dr. Strangelove,

That solenoid plunger spring disengages the gears when you let go of the starter button. Stretching it makes it (slightly more) resist the pinion drive gear engagement force when you hit the starter button.

It was a long time ago when I took GoldBoxer's starter off to clean-n-grease the Bendix mechanism. Trying to remove the bendix from the shaft required a force more than I feared would destroy the powder metal wire ring retainer. Did not have the puller needed. Not to worry, a good cleaning/greasing is possible without taking it apart. I remember spraying it with spray brake or carb clean, working it back-n-forth, then blowing out the soiled solvent with a blowgun, and doing it again. Next I smeared the shaft and worked in the Moly grease. It moved smooth as glass. After reassembly, hitting the starter button generated the quietest/quickest gear engagement I had ever heard. That smoother, quieter gear engagement sound lasted for months.